WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.920 Music. 00:00:08.802 --> 00:00:14.742 Your podcast and YouTube blog covering the German startup scene with news, 00:00:14.982 --> 00:00:17.662 interviews, and live events. 00:00:21.922 --> 00:00:26.802 Welcome back, everybody. This is Joe from StartupRate.io, your startup podcast 00:00:26.802 --> 00:00:31.162 and YouTube blog from Germany, Austria, and Switzerland, also known as the Authority 00:00:31.162 --> 00:00:34.222 on GSA, German, Swiss, and Austrian startups. 00:00:34.222 --> 00:00:40.342 Our journey at the Business Angel Day 2024 in the lovely city of Mainz continues. 00:00:40.762 --> 00:00:45.982 In this episode, we'll explore innovative ideas and transformative discussions 00:00:45.982 --> 00:00:48.962 that emerged during this event. 00:00:49.162 --> 00:00:54.662 From key investment trends to breakthrough technologies, get ready to hear firsthand 00:00:54.662 --> 00:00:58.162 from industry leaders and rising stars in the startup scene. 00:00:58.162 --> 00:01:02.162 Don't miss out on this inspiring and innovative episode. 00:01:02.422 --> 00:01:08.762 And please, please keep in mind that is also a live recorded version on site. 00:01:08.762 --> 00:01:10.762 So the interviews were taken on site. 00:01:10.902 --> 00:01:17.062 There may be a little bit background noise, but we did our best to really delete this. 00:01:17.482 --> 00:01:22.682 Happy to get your feedback. Go down here in the show notes and leave us feedback in the feedback form. 00:01:23.002 --> 00:01:26.762 Thank you and have a good day. Hello and welcome to another interview from the 00:01:26.762 --> 00:01:28.522 Business Angel Summit 2024. 00:01:28.942 --> 00:01:33.602 I would like to welcome Thomas Roth from Incipio. 00:01:33.802 --> 00:01:39.782 What specific challenges in surgical planning does Incipio address and who are 00:01:39.782 --> 00:01:41.662 your primary target customers? 00:01:41.902 --> 00:01:45.742 There are more than 6 million surgeries every year that require pre-operative 00:01:45.742 --> 00:01:49.562 surgical planning. Surgical planning is necessary when it comes to designing 00:01:49.562 --> 00:01:53.622 transplants or implants, patients specifically, such as... 00:01:54.349 --> 00:01:58.109 Facial reconstructions after tumor removal that's actually where we are starting, 00:01:58.749 --> 00:02:02.769 we will then scale from head and neck surgery into orthopedics because there's 00:02:02.769 --> 00:02:07.189 many interesting cases there these kinds of surgeries take place in hospitals 00:02:07.189 --> 00:02:09.529 university hospitals rather big hospitals. 00:02:10.349 --> 00:02:13.189 Where they have the capability capabilities of 00:02:13.189 --> 00:02:16.189 treating the patients like that and the decision makers are 00:02:16.189 --> 00:02:18.969 usually the surgeons in the hospitals for the 00:02:18.969 --> 00:02:21.949 better patient treatment um you have one 00:02:21.949 --> 00:02:25.049 example a skull on your on 00:02:25.049 --> 00:02:28.409 your booth could you elaborate a little bit more on 00:02:28.409 --> 00:02:31.369 the specific example what is happening there and how 00:02:31.369 --> 00:02:34.369 your tool helps imagine you 00:02:34.369 --> 00:02:39.029 have a patient that has a bone tumor in the lower jaw or mid face these kind 00:02:39.029 --> 00:02:44.329 of bone tumors have to be removed and the resulting gap in the jaw has to be 00:02:44.329 --> 00:02:48.549 closed of course so that the patient can chew and speak again properly and therefore 00:02:48.549 --> 00:02:51.689 a transplant from the own patient's body is used. 00:02:51.849 --> 00:02:58.089 For example, parts of the pelvic crest, the fibular bone or the scapula. 00:02:58.509 --> 00:03:04.209 And these bones have to be not removed but parts of them and will be taken and 00:03:04.209 --> 00:03:07.689 installed in the facial area to close the defect. 00:03:07.969 --> 00:03:10.589 That's the medical gold standard and we're not changing that. 00:03:10.929 --> 00:03:14.829 We're changing the planning and designing of these transplants. 00:03:14.829 --> 00:03:17.869 Today, this is a very cumbersome and manual process. 00:03:18.429 --> 00:03:21.449 Surgeons have no tools or time to take care of that. 00:03:21.969 --> 00:03:25.989 So today, this is a very outsourced process. They have to outsource the planning 00:03:25.989 --> 00:03:32.209 to engineers out of the clinics, which costs a lot of time, takes a lot of their time. 00:03:33.849 --> 00:03:39.149 Costs a lot of money and leads to delays of several hours in worst cases, in extreme cases. 00:03:39.829 --> 00:03:42.189 And basically, somebody external 00:03:42.189 --> 00:03:47.089 is planning for the surgeon and then the surgeon starts the surgery. 00:03:47.589 --> 00:03:51.129 And then at one point they realize, oh, that was a mistake in planning. Does this happen? 00:03:53.278 --> 00:04:00.598 It might be possible usually they detect misplanning or imperfections before 00:04:00.598 --> 00:04:06.658 that because the surgeons usually check the results of the external engineers before they continue, 00:04:07.518 --> 00:04:12.438 however it still is a pain in the ass for them because if there's any anything 00:04:12.438 --> 00:04:17.218 incorrectly planned they have to set up another video call to discuss the changes 00:04:17.218 --> 00:04:19.238 and tell them what to do differently. 00:04:20.038 --> 00:04:24.458 So again they have to have the second or third web meeting which again takes their time. 00:04:24.698 --> 00:04:28.238 These engineers only work from nine to five and during that time the surgeon 00:04:28.238 --> 00:04:31.198 is in the operating room so they don't really have time for that. 00:04:31.578 --> 00:04:36.498 With our automated solution they can do it whenever they want and wherever they want within seconds. 00:04:37.198 --> 00:04:42.918 Could you elaborate on the current development stage of Incipio and any significant 00:04:42.918 --> 00:04:45.838 milestones achieved to date? Yes of course. 00:04:46.718 --> 00:04:50.618 Incipio is a spin-off of the University Hospital RWTH Aachen. 00:04:50.798 --> 00:04:52.198 That's where the idea was born. 00:04:52.438 --> 00:04:57.538 We have started with an idea and a patent application and what we have achieved 00:04:57.538 --> 00:05:02.198 so far is our patent is granted in the EU and the US for our novel technology. 00:05:02.498 --> 00:05:07.698 We have a very strong prototype that is almost completed and ready for use and 00:05:07.698 --> 00:05:11.218 we are working on the certification of our software as a medical device. 00:05:11.438 --> 00:05:13.458 Our company is already ISO certified 00:05:13.458 --> 00:05:17.598 and we already have a very strong and interdisciplinary team set up. 00:05:18.038 --> 00:05:22.758 We may add Germany is pretty strong in engineering, but your school is one of 00:05:22.758 --> 00:05:25.318 the premier institutions for engineering. That's right. 00:05:26.558 --> 00:05:30.578 What are your current funding status and are you seeking additional investments 00:05:30.578 --> 00:05:32.878 or partnerships to extend your solution? 00:05:34.658 --> 00:05:38.958 Zipio is currently raising 2 million euro and we already have commitments of roughly 1 million. 00:05:39.378 --> 00:05:44.398 We are about to close the financing round in the next couple of weeks and with 00:05:44.398 --> 00:05:48.798 that we will get the market certification entering the market and growing our 00:05:48.798 --> 00:05:51.958 team and what was the rest? 00:05:54.251 --> 00:05:59.931 Partnerships oh yeah and we are always interested in partnerships we are currently 00:05:59.931 --> 00:06:04.171 looking for investments mainly but we are always interested in partnerships 00:06:04.171 --> 00:06:07.391 at its clinics let me start it again, 00:06:08.291 --> 00:06:11.291 we are always looking for partnerships we are well connected 00:06:11.291 --> 00:06:14.291 in the medical world because of our spin-off situation we 00:06:14.291 --> 00:06:17.451 are well connected in germany also switzerland especially but also 00:06:17.451 --> 00:06:20.651 further abroad we're interested in speaking to additional renowned 00:06:20.651 --> 00:06:23.851 surgeons in top hospitals around the world that are 00:06:23.851 --> 00:06:26.831 interested in medical innovation we are 00:06:26.831 --> 00:06:30.271 also interested in partnerships with medical device manufacturers and 00:06:30.271 --> 00:06:33.251 collaboration partners but mainly looking to close 00:06:33.251 --> 00:06:39.211 our fundraising at this point what strategies are you employing to integrate 00:06:39.211 --> 00:06:44.611 into existing surgical workflows and how are you approaching customer acquisition 00:06:44.611 --> 00:06:46.951 we have chosen a very lean setup 00:06:46.951 --> 00:06:50.611 of our technology Surgeons can use our technology in the web browser, 00:06:50.831 --> 00:06:54.571 so it doesn't have to be integrated in the IT systems of the hospital, 00:06:54.811 --> 00:06:58.571 nor does it have to be installed on every computer in the hospital. 00:06:59.011 --> 00:07:03.231 Only a few decision makers and planners in the clinic will use our technology 00:07:03.231 --> 00:07:05.331 and we have the direct connection to them. 00:07:05.451 --> 00:07:11.091 So it's a very smart and easy approach to get installed or get into the hospitals. 00:07:11.651 --> 00:07:14.131 What approach do you use for customer acquisition? 00:07:16.011 --> 00:07:19.771 One of the biggest advantages of Inzipio is that we are the spin-off of the 00:07:19.771 --> 00:07:23.171 University Hospital and our co-founder, Professor Ali Modaba, 00:07:23.331 --> 00:07:25.851 is a key opinion leader and head and neck surgeon. 00:07:26.551 --> 00:07:31.251 So that brings a lot of credibility and we don't have to do cold calls mainly, 00:07:31.511 --> 00:07:37.291 we always get the doors opened through Ali, through our network and that helps 00:07:37.291 --> 00:07:40.011 a lot when reaching out to users in the clinics. 00:07:41.251 --> 00:07:48.131 What KPIs are you monitoring to assess the effectiveness of Incipio and what 00:07:48.131 --> 00:07:50.271 outcomes have you observed so far? 00:07:50.471 --> 00:07:54.791 I'm not sure if this question is relevant because we are pre-revenue, pre-market. 00:07:55.071 --> 00:07:59.811 We have some internal KPIs. Of course, we have some KPIs established in our company. 00:08:00.011 --> 00:08:06.071 For example, we are following an agile development approach in our IT and tech team. 00:08:06.311 --> 00:08:10.551 So, we're doing sprint planning and detailed sprint reviews after two weeks, 00:08:10.771 --> 00:08:16.831 seeing whether our time scheduling and forecasts worked out. 00:08:17.291 --> 00:08:20.711 And we are getting better and better in accuracy and precision. 00:08:21.271 --> 00:08:26.671 And of course, we have some financial KPIs and controlling KPIs that we are following. 00:08:26.891 --> 00:08:29.291 Great. Thank you very much. It was a pleasure talking to you. 00:08:29.451 --> 00:08:32.531 Thank you. It was my pleasure to talk to you. Thank you. It was my pleasure. 00:08:38.308 --> 00:08:43.968 Hello and welcome to another interview from the Mrs. Angel Summit 2024. 00:08:44.848 --> 00:08:49.608 Hi, can you introduce yourself? Hi, my name is Julia and I'm from Carbon Instant. 00:08:50.488 --> 00:08:54.728 What problem does your startup solve and who is your target customer? 00:08:55.668 --> 00:09:02.008 Our startup really solves the question. Today, the concrete industry is quite 00:09:02.008 --> 00:09:07.828 CO2 intensive in their production. So if you produce cement today globally, 00:09:07.828 --> 00:09:10.488 that's about 8% of the global CO2 emissions. 00:09:10.968 --> 00:09:16.448 One of the main problems in terms of climate change. And we work with a negative 00:09:16.448 --> 00:09:22.048 emission technology where we treat this negative emission technology so that 00:09:22.048 --> 00:09:23.968 it can actually be included into, 00:09:24.248 --> 00:09:26.268 for example, concrete. 00:09:27.648 --> 00:09:31.128 Instead of bodies, you're cementing carbon dioxide. 00:09:32.728 --> 00:09:39.588 We are working with Biochar and Biochar is one of the recognized negative emission 00:09:39.588 --> 00:09:46.708 technologies by the IPCC and we developed a patented process where you can actually 00:09:46.708 --> 00:09:49.708 treat the Biochar so that it gains, for example, 00:09:49.788 --> 00:09:56.468 reactivity and is better usable really for the guys in the construction industry. 00:09:56.468 --> 00:10:02.268 And it basically absorbs more carbon dioxide than it produces? 00:10:02.788 --> 00:10:07.608 No, actually, the storing process happens really at the beginning. 00:10:07.948 --> 00:10:14.768 So the process in general, you have CO2 in the air, plants take up the CO2. 00:10:16.488 --> 00:10:23.568 For example, the trees, they grow, they build themselves basically out of carbon 00:10:23.568 --> 00:10:26.128 and release the oxygen back in the air. 00:10:26.468 --> 00:10:32.988 And once, for example, a biomass is not used anymore, for example, 00:10:33.308 --> 00:10:38.088 if a tree is like the leaves are cut, they fall down. 00:10:38.468 --> 00:10:41.808 Usually they degrade or today they get incinerated often. 00:10:42.348 --> 00:10:48.528 And we work with a process called pyrolysis, takes this waste biomass basically 00:10:48.528 --> 00:10:53.808 and basically fixates the carbon in a solid form. 00:10:54.628 --> 00:11:01.288 And this this is a negative emission material and what we do there are a lot 00:11:01.288 --> 00:11:05.548 of really cool people doing this a lot of good plants and plant technologies 00:11:05.548 --> 00:11:10.128 and we are really treating in this carbon so that it can be used in the construction 00:11:10.128 --> 00:11:14.008 way in a in a way that actually has a functional benefit. 00:11:19.377 --> 00:11:26.117 What is your current stage of development and what milestones have you achieved so far? 00:11:26.677 --> 00:11:31.557 So far, we have patented our process. 00:11:31.997 --> 00:11:37.457 We have found partners in the industry to really scale the process, 00:11:38.457 --> 00:11:46.977 the first patent process that we have, and now we're on the verge of scaling the second and third. 00:11:48.157 --> 00:11:52.517 In terms of, you're at the Business Angel Summit, in terms of funding, 00:11:52.777 --> 00:11:55.037 what would you say is your current stage? 00:11:57.197 --> 00:12:03.877 So far we are funded with turnover and grants and we have just got the first 00:12:03.877 --> 00:12:08.097 Business Angel round set up. 00:12:09.257 --> 00:12:12.257 Now we're really looking for partners or Business Angels that 00:12:12.257 --> 00:12:15.357 want to come to us but have 00:12:15.357 --> 00:12:18.437 some additional know-how so we're really looking for 00:12:18.437 --> 00:12:21.697 for business angels from the industry like construction 00:12:21.697 --> 00:12:24.377 industry cement industry anything in that 00:12:24.377 --> 00:12:28.337 direction would be really cool somebody would knowledge in chemistry would also 00:12:28.337 --> 00:12:34.437 be welcome and we do have a couple chemists on board already but if you if you're 00:12:34.437 --> 00:12:39.037 from that area you're always welcome to have a chance in terms of VC terminology 00:12:39.037 --> 00:12:44.297 are we talking about seed or pre seed I'd say we probably, 00:12:45.717 --> 00:12:50.637 kind of in the middle, like with the first product, we are already in the market 00:12:50.637 --> 00:12:57.857 and with the second, we're still a bit in the scaling process and the prototyping. 00:12:59.477 --> 00:13:04.937 What is your go-to-market strategy and how you're acquiring customers or users? 00:13:06.877 --> 00:13:14.457 So, we really have a licensing model so that we are not going to be the people 00:13:14.457 --> 00:13:17.317 really producing the materials. 00:13:17.897 --> 00:13:21.257 It's a lot of great people that can do this already. 00:13:21.637 --> 00:13:27.897 We're really enabling the people along the supply chain to do this. Ah, yes. 00:13:28.677 --> 00:13:32.337 We're really lucky. We have a couple of very good industry partners, 00:13:32.757 --> 00:13:35.717 and of course they themselves are quite well connected. 00:13:36.297 --> 00:13:42.757 And we have some people in team which are really good connected in the construction industry as well. 00:13:44.952 --> 00:13:50.952 What key metrics or KPIs are you tracking and what results have you observed so far? 00:13:51.132 --> 00:13:55.312 So what does your startup have to do better? Yeah. 00:13:55.992 --> 00:14:02.152 For us, really the key is functionality. So for us, to have a solution which 00:14:02.152 --> 00:14:06.712 is really good is really that we can outperform conventional material. 00:14:08.372 --> 00:14:12.752 Do you have any metrics that you can quote here? 00:14:13.672 --> 00:14:18.132 For example, we are always looking at reactivity, we're always looking at, 00:14:18.132 --> 00:14:22.752 of course, the standard things like compressive strength, flexural strength, 00:14:23.012 --> 00:14:28.112 but also metrics which are a bit more delicate, 00:14:28.452 --> 00:14:33.312 like, for example, durability and, of course, CO2 footprint is one of the main things as well. 00:14:33.852 --> 00:14:38.872 Can you give us a rough idea? You're better like two times, five times, 50 times? 00:14:42.752 --> 00:14:47.952 We're still working on this but it looks like we we will probably be a bit better 00:14:47.952 --> 00:14:53.132 than um than the one i can i can tell a bit more once the patent is released next year, 00:14:54.152 --> 00:14:58.972 okay so you cannot tell due to patent restrictions okay thank you very much 00:14:58.972 --> 00:15:02.712 it was a pleasure having you thank you so much i'm bringing you another interview 00:15:02.712 --> 00:15:05.192 from the business angels summit, 00:15:05.712 --> 00:15:10.612 germany 2024 hey can you introduce yourself briefly hi my name is christoph 00:15:10.612 --> 00:15:12.652 grün i'm um CEO of Kavichan. 00:15:12.812 --> 00:15:16.712 We are a spin-off of the Karlsruhe Institute of Technology and we are aiming 00:15:16.712 --> 00:15:20.992 to revolutionize oxygen sensing in 3D cell cultures. 00:15:23.353 --> 00:15:28.813 How do undetected side effects during drug development impact the pharmaceutical 00:15:28.813 --> 00:15:32.753 industry and how does Kevigin aim to address this issue? 00:15:33.713 --> 00:15:37.033 So, if you are looking at the drug development at the moment, 00:15:37.273 --> 00:15:40.593 most of the cell cultures are done under ambient atmosphere, 00:15:41.113 --> 00:15:45.693 so far away from the human conditions. with the results that the results of 00:15:45.693 --> 00:15:48.593 your experience are not direct transferable to the patients. 00:15:49.513 --> 00:15:56.353 So side effects can occur and with every side effect the time to market is longer for the drugs. 00:15:56.653 --> 00:16:00.933 This means for example up to 45 million dollars. 00:16:01.873 --> 00:16:07.533 This can lead to up to 200,000 of deaths due to side effects in Europe alone. 00:16:07.533 --> 00:16:13.953 So this is a high impact that you have good in vitro models for your drug testing. 00:16:15.593 --> 00:16:22.753 What specific challenges in in vitro testing does Kevigen address and who are 00:16:22.753 --> 00:16:24.093 your primary customers? 00:16:24.873 --> 00:16:30.053 So you need a drug development in vitro model that's close to the human body. 00:16:30.313 --> 00:16:35.613 Not only that you have 3D cell cultures, but you need the right oxygen concentration. 00:16:35.613 --> 00:16:38.893 For example, in the heart, you have around 5% of oxygen. 00:16:39.593 --> 00:16:43.813 Current methods are done under ambient atmosphere with around 20% of oxygen. 00:16:44.073 --> 00:16:47.993 So you need to adjust the setting to the human conditions. 00:16:48.533 --> 00:16:54.373 And this can be solved with our products. And you're already holding something 00:16:54.373 --> 00:16:56.053 in your hand. Can you show that? Yeah. 00:16:56.613 --> 00:17:00.753 We are using... Yeah, you can't... Maybe you can't see it. These are micro-cavities. 00:17:00.973 --> 00:17:03.533 They are around 300 micrometers in diameter. 00:17:13.625 --> 00:17:16.585 And these micro cavities are out of an oxygen 00:17:16.585 --> 00:17:20.265 sensitive polymer film we thermoform 00:17:20.265 --> 00:17:23.245 it to these cavities and now you can culture your cells 00:17:23.245 --> 00:17:27.885 in this tiny little micro cavities and measure oxygen in the direct micro environment 00:17:27.885 --> 00:17:33.425 of the cells and with our technology you can get up to 15 000 of micro cavities 00:17:33.425 --> 00:17:38.725 in such a blade which means you can do high throughput experiments and create 00:17:38.725 --> 00:17:40.885 a lot of results on a single plate. 00:17:42.745 --> 00:17:48.085 Could you elaborate on the current development stage of Kevigin and any significant 00:17:48.085 --> 00:17:49.765 milestones achieved to date? 00:17:50.265 --> 00:17:53.705 Well, the last four years we've done our proof of concept of this technology. 00:17:54.025 --> 00:17:58.845 We created first prototypes and now in the seed round we are looking for investment 00:17:58.845 --> 00:18:02.985 to bring the idea from the prototype phase to the market. 00:18:07.305 --> 00:18:12.865 What is your current funding status and are you seeking additional investments or partnerships, 00:18:13.585 --> 00:18:18.625 and at the moment we are funded by the helmholtz association with a funding 00:18:18.625 --> 00:18:25.185 program and we are in a seat financing route and looking for up to 500 000 euros for the first round, 00:18:25.705 --> 00:18:31.385 to bring this idea to market we need investment for sales and for software development. 00:18:34.384 --> 00:18:40.864 What strategies are you employing to integrate Kevigin's technology into existing 00:18:40.864 --> 00:18:45.184 drug development workflows and how are you approaching customer acquisition? 00:18:46.404 --> 00:18:50.664 We can integrate our technology directly in the drug development process because 00:18:50.664 --> 00:18:55.624 you can do your current methods like microscopy as well in our microplates. 00:18:55.844 --> 00:18:59.204 So we add additional information in the ongoing process. 00:18:59.204 --> 00:19:04.844 This means customer can easily integrate our system in the process and in the 00:19:04.844 --> 00:19:10.364 end, with our method, you have one system from the beginning of generating spheres 00:19:10.364 --> 00:19:12.524 and organoids to the end, to the results. 00:19:12.524 --> 00:19:17.344 With our system, you can start by generating the spheres and organoids, 00:19:17.504 --> 00:19:23.784 adjust to a physiological oxygen level, do your experiments under conditions 00:19:23.784 --> 00:19:25.204 that are transferable to humans, 00:19:25.404 --> 00:19:31.984 and also do your ongoing methods like microscopy or other essays, 00:19:32.164 --> 00:19:36.464 and in the end get results that are next level because you have done it under 00:19:36.464 --> 00:19:37.984 physiological conditions. 00:19:42.624 --> 00:19:48.644 What key performance indicators, KPIs, are you monitoring to assess the effectiveness, 00:19:49.264 --> 00:19:54.024 of Kavigen's solution and what outcomes have you observed so far? 00:19:54.724 --> 00:19:59.464 So far we can see that you can significantly reduce your time of experiments 00:19:59.464 --> 00:20:03.764 because, as I mentioned, with one system you can do the whole process from generating 00:20:03.764 --> 00:20:05.784 the cell cultures to the results. 00:20:06.004 --> 00:20:09.384 This is one thing, reducing the time of your experiments. 00:20:09.644 --> 00:20:12.624 And you can also do high-throughput experiments. As I mentioned, 00:20:13.044 --> 00:20:15.924 15,000 spheres on one blade. 00:20:16.084 --> 00:20:18.984 Current systems mostly can do like 100 to 400. 00:20:21.052 --> 00:20:24.152 So you're significantly scaling up the process? You're scaling up the process, 00:20:24.332 --> 00:20:29.372 reducing time, reducing money because you are saving time and you don't need 00:20:29.372 --> 00:20:31.752 so much sales for your experiments. 00:20:32.032 --> 00:20:37.532 You have a higher number of data. You can do more statistics, 00:20:37.912 --> 00:20:40.732 get better results and with a higher impact. 00:20:41.732 --> 00:20:45.832 Do you have a rough idea how much faster the process is with you? 00:20:47.272 --> 00:20:51.452 It's hard to just say in general because it depends on every single process, 00:20:51.612 --> 00:20:53.652 on the application, on your organ type. 00:20:53.872 --> 00:20:55.772 But what we can say is that we 00:20:55.772 --> 00:20:58.952 can provide a solution for different applications because of our process. 00:20:59.132 --> 00:21:03.632 We can adjust the sizes of the micro cavities to the specific need. 00:21:04.292 --> 00:21:09.612 So with this in mind, it's hard to say, okay, we can reduce it five times because 00:21:09.612 --> 00:21:11.172 every process is different. 00:21:11.432 --> 00:21:15.412 And if you're looking for spheres, organites, yeah, you have great difference. 00:21:15.412 --> 00:21:21.092 But with our system, we can cover the whole thing, starting with small spheroids 00:21:21.092 --> 00:21:23.532 up to bigger or larger organoids. 00:21:23.792 --> 00:21:27.312 So, yeah, you have to look at a specific experiment. 00:21:28.172 --> 00:21:33.092 Great. Thank you very much. Welcome. Thank you for the interview. My pleasure. 00:21:37.520 --> 00:22:04.442 Music.