WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.760 00:00:08.749 --> 00:00:14.769 Your podcast and YouTube blog covering the German startup scene with news, 00:00:13.360 --> 00:00:19.440 00:00:15.029 --> 00:00:17.689 Interviews, and live events. 00:00:19.829 --> 00:00:23.589 Hello and welcome everybody. This is Joe from StartupRate.io, 00:00:23.709 --> 00:00:26.289 your startup podcast and YouTube blog from Germany. 00:00:26.589 --> 00:00:30.949 Your go-to podcast for startup tech and innovations inside. Today, 00:00:31.149 --> 00:00:36.469 we have a special guest, Jens Philipp Jung, CEO of Link11, a leader in DDoS 00:00:36.469 --> 00:00:40.069 protection and one of the top 40 under 40 by Capital. 00:00:40.569 --> 00:00:45.529 If you ever wondered how to scale a tech business or navigate the challenges 00:00:45.529 --> 00:00:50.469 of cybersecurity in today's rapidly evolving market, this episode is for you. 00:00:50.709 --> 00:00:55.189 Let's dive into Philipp's entrepreneurial journey, leadership lessons and innovations 00:00:55.189 --> 00:00:58.329 in the cybersecurity space. Jens, welcome. 00:00:59.909 --> 00:01:02.709 Hi, Jaron. Very nice to be here. Welcome, everybody. 00:01:03.409 --> 00:01:08.209 Totally my pleasure. Let me spend a few words on our enabler today. 00:01:08.429 --> 00:01:12.789 This recording was made possible by HTII and the Enterprise Europe Network Hessen. 00:01:13.029 --> 00:01:16.929 These organizations have made tremendous contributions to helping startup businesses 00:01:16.929 --> 00:01:21.709 succeed and thrive, providing a range of services from helping to find grants 00:01:21.709 --> 00:01:22.769 to ongoing partnerships. 00:01:22.769 --> 00:01:27.809 By taking advantage of these resources, startup companies can network and develop 00:01:27.809 --> 00:01:31.449 innovative strategies for success on the international stage. 00:01:31.629 --> 00:01:36.649 The dedicated support of HTNI and the Enterprise Europe Network Hessen is paramount 00:01:36.649 --> 00:01:39.909 in providing startup businesses with the tools for lasting success. 00:01:40.049 --> 00:01:45.249 Learn more on htii.de and en-hessen.de. 00:01:45.729 --> 00:01:51.149 So now that we got that out of the way, Jens, thank you for joining us today. 00:01:51.349 --> 00:01:55.009 Let's start with your journey. What sparked your interest in technology and 00:01:55.009 --> 00:01:56.489 cybersecurity in the first place? 00:01:56.629 --> 00:01:59.569 Have you been a juvenile hacker? 00:02:02.658 --> 00:02:09.338 I wish, but unfortunately, I mainly used, when I was young, the computer for entertaining myself. 00:02:09.578 --> 00:02:11.758 So I was a passionate gamer. 00:02:12.058 --> 00:02:17.018 I mean, I was born in 83 and then get in touch with the first computers. 00:02:17.398 --> 00:02:23.358 And yeah, instead of doing something really useful with it, I spent my time in gaming with it. 00:02:24.058 --> 00:02:30.778 I would say the largest useful use of it was probably organizing LAN parties back in these days. 00:02:30.778 --> 00:02:37.118 So this was also why I was already very much familiar with networks and connecting 00:02:37.118 --> 00:02:45.658 computers and building these events and these infrastructure for the LAN parties back in these days, 00:02:45.758 --> 00:02:49.758 long before you were able to play with a good latency online. 00:02:50.658 --> 00:02:56.298 Yes, I remember those parties where you really had to physically bring your 00:02:56.298 --> 00:03:01.678 computer. I even remember the time when you have those red coaxial cables and 00:03:01.678 --> 00:03:03.618 need to screw them in and stuff like this. 00:03:04.038 --> 00:03:10.338 Yeah, good times. And I do know a lot of our audience is about the same age rate. 00:03:11.158 --> 00:03:12.438 What games did you play? 00:03:12.838 --> 00:03:18.058 Oh, it was primarily Counter-Strike. I heard it's still a thing today. 00:03:18.678 --> 00:03:21.978 Luckily, I left the whole gaming behind me. But back in these days, 00:03:22.118 --> 00:03:27.078 it was like primary Counter-Strike from early in the morning to late in the 00:03:27.078 --> 00:03:29.078 evening, except on school days. 00:03:29.498 --> 00:03:36.658 I see, I see. Well, for me, I was once at a LAN party with playing Counter-Strike, 00:03:36.758 --> 00:03:41.538 but after I died more than 40 times in 30 minutes, I thought, maybe not my game. 00:03:44.681 --> 00:03:48.921 You have built Link11 into a leader of IndeedOS Protection. 00:03:49.441 --> 00:03:56.281 How did the initial idea come about? And what was your vision when you first started the company? 00:03:57.321 --> 00:04:02.781 Yeah, this was actually a big coincidence. Because when we have founded the company initially, 00:04:03.361 --> 00:04:05.541 we founded the company as a managed 00:04:05.541 --> 00:04:09.241 service provider for low latency applications, network applications, 00:04:09.661 --> 00:04:15.841 and server applications, which was, I would say, partially because of my passion 00:04:15.841 --> 00:04:18.401 and history in the gaming and building these LAN parties. 00:04:18.681 --> 00:04:24.621 But this was how it came that we have set up and managed server infrastructures 00:04:24.621 --> 00:04:26.941 and network infrastructures in the data centers in Frankfurt. 00:04:27.741 --> 00:04:33.741 And while operating this business, we suddenly were faced with the so-called 00:04:33.741 --> 00:04:39.501 DDoS attacks, which have overwhelmed our network and put the whole infrastructure offline. 00:04:39.501 --> 00:04:43.121 And this was a serious issue and we 00:04:43.121 --> 00:04:46.361 needed to solve this issue and my co-founder Carsten Dessler 00:04:46.361 --> 00:04:49.361 who is a world-class engineer while I'm just a 00:04:49.361 --> 00:04:53.061 commercial guy to say so with some 00:04:53.061 --> 00:04:56.181 technical passion he has looked 00:04:56.181 --> 00:04:59.241 around what solutions we could implement to mitigate these 00:04:59.241 --> 00:05:02.261 DDoS attacks which had serious effects on the availability 00:05:02.261 --> 00:05:06.001 of our services which we have provided back in these days and he 00:05:06.001 --> 00:05:11.581 basically can come with an idea to develop on DDoS mitigation technology by 00:05:11.581 --> 00:05:18.821 himself leveraging his programming skills and our existing infrastructure and 00:05:18.821 --> 00:05:23.681 the solution was such good and such capable that. 00:05:24.588 --> 00:05:30.588 From words of mouth, other companies came to us and asked us if we could also 00:05:30.588 --> 00:05:33.848 provide this kind of DDoS mitigation technology to them. 00:05:34.528 --> 00:05:39.508 And as initially we only have developed it for ourselves, we find commercial 00:05:39.508 --> 00:05:45.288 agreements with them and also then developed a user interface for our technology 00:05:45.288 --> 00:05:48.328 that also other companies can use our service. 00:05:48.468 --> 00:05:54.048 And this was how we came into cybersecurity. So we were affected by a cyber 00:05:54.048 --> 00:06:00.168 attack where we didn't find any applicable solution and then have developed 00:06:00.168 --> 00:06:04.848 our own solution to help ourselves and now millions of other assets. 00:06:05.928 --> 00:06:11.348 I see. Most people will already know what Adidas attack is. 00:06:11.448 --> 00:06:17.268 Can you give us a short definition? And before that, we may add to our audience, 00:06:17.368 --> 00:06:21.568 because not everybody is aware of that we are heard globally around the world 00:06:21.568 --> 00:06:22.708 in more than 90 countries. 00:06:23.408 --> 00:06:28.548 Frankfurt is one of the most important centers of the Internet. 00:06:28.768 --> 00:06:33.268 We have the largest Internet node here in Frankfurt with the ECIX. 00:06:33.268 --> 00:06:38.928 And that's one of the reasons why we do have such a lot of cloud computing all 00:06:38.928 --> 00:06:43.268 around here, which basically laid the foundation for your business. 00:06:43.408 --> 00:06:45.208 And now back to you with the DDoS. 00:06:46.728 --> 00:06:50.468 Absolutely. So here in Frankfurt are all the data centers where the servers 00:06:50.468 --> 00:06:54.028 are running. And on the servers are obviously the applications. 00:06:54.608 --> 00:06:58.788 And the trickiest thing with the DDoS attack is that even if you have like a 00:06:58.788 --> 00:07:01.048 world-class data center with redundancy 00:07:01.048 --> 00:07:04.468 power, cooling, and all of these multi-million dollar investments, 00:07:05.128 --> 00:07:08.828 you have a lot of servers in the data center, and your highly sophisticated 00:07:08.828 --> 00:07:14.168 applications, if a data attack hits you, it basically saturates the internet 00:07:14.168 --> 00:07:16.068 connectivity of these servers. 00:07:16.848 --> 00:07:21.288 And if your application is depending to be reachable out of the internet, 00:07:21.428 --> 00:07:25.308 or even if it's reachable out of virtual private networks or similar things, 00:07:25.688 --> 00:07:28.488 then such data attack will interrupt the service. 00:07:28.488 --> 00:07:32.168 And it looks like your application is totally unavailable and offline. 00:07:32.988 --> 00:07:38.468 And especially nowadays where everything runs 24-7, this is a serious issue 00:07:38.468 --> 00:07:43.308 because imagine you have some high business peak days, for example, 00:07:43.948 --> 00:07:47.888 Black Friday, for example, Valentine Day in the e-commerce space. 00:07:47.888 --> 00:07:52.208 And then on such events, suddenly the whole online shop does not work any longer. 00:07:52.328 --> 00:07:54.488 Nobody can access it. Nobody can place any order. 00:07:55.048 --> 00:07:58.248 And you make like zero revenue on this day. 00:07:58.488 --> 00:08:04.368 What were some of the most unexpected challenges you encountered early in building 00:08:04.368 --> 00:08:07.228 your business and how did you overcome them? 00:08:07.908 --> 00:08:16.988 Well, I would say, you know, I was lucky and grew up in a nice area with nice 00:08:16.988 --> 00:08:23.928 friends and nice family and also some kind of moral picture and first, 00:08:24.643 --> 00:08:30.503 When I was very surprised about what happened was when we have actually received these DDoS attacks, 00:08:30.723 --> 00:08:38.603 because, I mean, this was somebody actively sending cyber attack to us to damage our business, 00:08:38.623 --> 00:08:42.403 which was already quite a surprise for me back in these days, 00:08:42.423 --> 00:08:46.143 because I never thought about that such things could happen. 00:08:46.143 --> 00:08:50.543 And I mean, we operated the business in a good manner and everything like that. 00:08:50.663 --> 00:08:54.843 And then somebody, and we don't even know who, because this is a tricky thing with cyber attacks. 00:08:54.983 --> 00:08:58.163 You usually don't know who was the initiator of the cyber attacks. 00:08:58.543 --> 00:09:01.343 Somebody has sent this attack to us, put us offline. 00:09:02.063 --> 00:09:04.883 So this was a big surprise for me and some kind of challenge. 00:09:05.083 --> 00:09:09.303 At the same time, very often out of challenges, you have opportunities. 00:09:09.343 --> 00:09:11.943 And I think we use this quite well. 00:09:12.743 --> 00:09:16.943 Another challenge and in a similar area, but unfortunately this does not bring 00:09:16.943 --> 00:09:23.303 really like an opportunity, was when we found out that we were cheated by some former employees. 00:09:23.563 --> 00:09:28.763 So this was really something very challenging for me also from a personal level 00:09:28.763 --> 00:09:31.043 because I always thought about, okay, what have we done wrong? 00:09:31.543 --> 00:09:34.723 Why were we cheated by this employee? 00:09:35.003 --> 00:09:41.163 And this was really like a challenging time to understand this and and to navigate 00:09:41.163 --> 00:09:43.643 through this because it totally, 00:09:44.403 --> 00:09:51.483 is um the opposite of what i understand from uh from a mobile compass and. 00:09:51.483 --> 00:09:56.943 I'm wondering if now your uh whole office is completely covered with cameras 00:09:56.943 --> 00:10:00.263 except the bathrooms but that's a really different 00:10:00.263 --> 00:10:02.983 Topic no actually not right and i mean this 00:10:02.983 --> 00:10:06.003 is the tricky thing um just because that 00:10:06.003 --> 00:10:09.283 thing happens to you once you should not lose trust 00:10:09.283 --> 00:10:12.123 and um and and 00:10:12.123 --> 00:10:14.823 and the good sign and the people right so actually we 00:10:14.823 --> 00:10:19.363 don't have installed any camera because of that um and 00:10:19.363 --> 00:10:25.143 and we also hope that it does not happen to us a second time um and yeah we 00:10:25.143 --> 00:10:30.263 trust our employees there and obviously since this was like a very early experience 00:10:30.263 --> 00:10:35.163 15 years ago and we've never had a second experience Since then, 00:10:35.343 --> 00:10:41.483 I think we were able to make better decisions when it comes to hiring and managing 00:10:41.483 --> 00:10:44.303 the people that such a thing would not happen again. 00:10:46.103 --> 00:10:51.443 I would be interested for our audience if they can think of an unexpected challenge 00:10:51.443 --> 00:10:54.643 they have faced in their startup journey. 00:10:54.903 --> 00:10:57.483 Happy to hear your thoughts, share them with us. 00:10:58.363 --> 00:11:03.003 Looking back now, what would you say was the biggest turning point for Link11? 00:11:03.943 --> 00:11:06.923 What moment made you feel like you're on the right path? 00:11:07.043 --> 00:11:13.083 Because my understanding is you had this DDoS tool and you just used it. 00:11:13.183 --> 00:11:16.103 And then somebody popped over into your office and said, hey, 00:11:16.183 --> 00:11:21.163 guys, your business is pretty good, but you did develop a tool there. Can I have it? 00:11:23.576 --> 00:11:31.136 Yeah, actually, this was also like a real turning point when we have won the first clients, 00:11:31.356 --> 00:11:38.356 but as they were still pretty small, I would say the biggest turning point was 00:11:38.356 --> 00:11:43.416 actually not too far away from winning the first client because there were then 00:11:43.416 --> 00:11:46.336 like nice demand from Fortune 500 organizations. 00:11:46.336 --> 00:11:52.396 And this was really like a turning point when we were able to win our first 00:11:52.396 --> 00:12:00.976 Fortune 500 client because it really shows, okay, this is what we have developed here. 00:12:01.156 --> 00:12:05.936 It's like a serious, it's a serious solution for a serious problem. 00:12:05.936 --> 00:12:11.536 And even the largest organization in this world are facing with the threat and 00:12:11.536 --> 00:12:16.156 are challenged or have challenges for solving these issues and these problems. 00:12:16.156 --> 00:12:21.956 So this was really like a turning point, which gave us also the confidence to 00:12:21.956 --> 00:12:25.976 have some kind of product market fit, which was an unformular term for us back 00:12:25.976 --> 00:12:28.516 in these days, obviously, speaking about 2010. 00:12:33.276 --> 00:12:40.036 You've recently been recognized as one of the top 40 under 40 by Capital, 00:12:40.216 --> 00:12:42.336 like the German equivalent of Forbes. 00:12:42.516 --> 00:12:47.336 How does this kind of recognition impact you personally and professionally? 00:12:47.336 --> 00:12:56.816 It has two impacts. So first impact is we are, as Link11, a kind of hidden champion, 00:12:57.196 --> 00:12:58.776 especially cybersecurity. 00:12:59.236 --> 00:13:03.576 I mean, we serve large B2B clients. We have a strong B2B focus, 00:13:03.956 --> 00:13:09.096 serving a very specific target audience, network administrator, 00:13:09.276 --> 00:13:11.176 head of network CISOs, and so on. 00:13:11.176 --> 00:13:18.236 So generally speaking, if you ask in a broader audience, who is Link 11 or what 00:13:18.236 --> 00:13:22.656 does Link 11 does, I would say the brand is not really familiar to many. 00:13:23.336 --> 00:13:28.856 And also then if we are going into hiring, we sometimes very much need to explain 00:13:28.856 --> 00:13:32.416 what we actually do, how is our company culture and so on. 00:13:32.496 --> 00:13:36.536 But this 40 on the 40 award helps 00:13:36.536 --> 00:13:39.416 us also to stand out a little bit and show about the 00:13:39.416 --> 00:13:43.656 capabilities of the organization and and what 00:13:43.656 --> 00:13:46.556 we have achieved so far so this really helps us in 00:13:46.556 --> 00:13:49.616 terms of hiring and standing out 00:13:49.616 --> 00:13:54.776 a little bit from these hit champion position and get some better visibility 00:13:54.776 --> 00:14:01.796 to other entrepreneurs investors and also potential employees and the second 00:14:01.796 --> 00:14:08.436 thing is when I was on my business trips in the USA and in Israel just lately, 00:14:08.456 --> 00:14:10.656 because of the acquisition, which we have done there, 00:14:10.936 --> 00:14:16.196 I always were very, very impressed how well all of these entrepreneurs are connected. 00:14:17.216 --> 00:14:24.756 And when I came back to Germany, I recognized that here, it's quite the opposite. 00:14:25.156 --> 00:14:30.436 I mean, yes, in Berlin, where we have like a nice startup scene, 00:14:30.836 --> 00:14:32.456 there is a lot of events, a lot of connection. 00:14:32.616 --> 00:14:36.436 But if you are outside of Berlin, it's very difficult. And there was not that 00:14:36.436 --> 00:14:39.176 many events, not that many connections. 00:14:40.276 --> 00:14:43.256 And therefore also these 40 on the 40 00:14:43.256 --> 00:14:46.416 about helped me because actually beside of 00:14:46.416 --> 00:14:49.556 the award there's also I mean beside of receiving the 00:14:49.556 --> 00:14:54.776 award for yourself you also have many other peoples there brilliant minds smart 00:14:54.776 --> 00:15:00.016 entrepreneurs great managers who received the similar award and they really 00:15:00.016 --> 00:15:05.456 emphasize these community of 40 on the 40 members we have our whatsapp groups 00:15:05.456 --> 00:15:08.936 our slack channels There are many events organized. 00:15:09.196 --> 00:15:11.676 You have peer group meetings. 00:15:13.416 --> 00:15:17.496 You are sharing best practices and you make new friends and connections. 00:15:17.796 --> 00:15:23.476 So this was really, really nice in terms of building a network and getting in 00:15:23.476 --> 00:15:25.436 touch with peer group and like-minded people. 00:15:27.216 --> 00:15:33.496 And going a little bit more into you, Maybe every entrepreneur has a set of 00:15:33.496 --> 00:15:37.316 habits and routines that help them to stay productive. 00:15:38.236 --> 00:15:41.856 What's one habit you swear by that had helped you in your journey? 00:15:42.096 --> 00:15:53.056 I think one of the most important things is to keep focus because there are so many, 00:15:54.657 --> 00:16:01.557 interesting opportunities out there so many great new ideas new technology new business models, 00:16:02.197 --> 00:16:12.197 and so on and one of the main thing is always keep on focus on what you are doing because if you, 00:16:12.977 --> 00:16:15.817 if you change too often if you lose the focus you will 00:16:15.817 --> 00:16:19.057 end up nowhere so i think one 00:16:19.057 --> 00:16:21.877 of the key routine i have 00:16:21.877 --> 00:16:25.777 for that i mean i created some kind of dashboard or 00:16:25.777 --> 00:16:28.737 a whiteboard where i have like the topics where 00:16:28.737 --> 00:16:33.257 i want to focus on um we just recently implemented okr 00:16:33.257 --> 00:16:38.797 to really thinking like a quadrual a quarter rhythm to really keep focus on 00:16:38.797 --> 00:16:42.877 the things which actually matter and and don't lose this focus because of any 00:16:42.877 --> 00:16:50.217 other ideas opportunities are out there and last but not least um if you if 00:16:50.457 --> 00:16:56.977 you get into a certain age i would say so um the best the best routine uh you 00:16:56.977 --> 00:17:04.297 could have is uh to have a supportive wife and family um so also on this receiving 00:17:04.297 --> 00:17:10.117 having said that uh nice greetings to my wife Jessica the love of my life oh. 00:17:10.117 --> 00:17:15.697 So sweet um that also brings me to the next question how do you balance the 00:17:15.697 --> 00:17:20.457 demands of a growing business while maintaining a healthy work-life balance 00:17:20.457 --> 00:17:24.877 Yeah that's a tricky one what 00:17:24.877 --> 00:17:34.877 I read and and and learned and heard and also experience is that what many successful 00:17:34.877 --> 00:17:40.837 founders have in common is that they are working as hell. 00:17:42.144 --> 00:17:48.244 So, building a startup is not a part-time job, and it's also not a full-time job. 00:17:48.544 --> 00:17:53.504 It's like an 80 to 100 hours a week job, in my opinion, right? 00:17:53.644 --> 00:17:59.024 And what I heard from others, I mean, if you ask work-life balance coaches, 00:17:59.204 --> 00:18:02.124 they will tell you the opposite, right? 00:18:02.224 --> 00:18:08.644 But so, my experience is if you want to build a startup and if you really want to be successful, 00:18:09.024 --> 00:18:13.404 we speak about 80 to 100 hours, Which basically means like you wake up, 00:18:13.664 --> 00:18:18.664 you have a quick breakfast, and then you work on your startup until you go into bed, 00:18:19.164 --> 00:18:22.304 sleeping, and then every day the same. Repeat this. 00:18:25.144 --> 00:18:30.704 Work like hell, right? When there is crunch time, then really lean in. 00:18:30.944 --> 00:18:37.784 And yes, then there are also things like sport, healthy food, 00:18:37.984 --> 00:18:40.864 meeting with friends, building relationships, and things like that. 00:18:41.164 --> 00:18:45.844 You know, the day only has 24 hours. And I always thought about, 00:18:46.004 --> 00:18:49.684 hey, if others work eight hours and I would work 16 hours a day, 00:18:49.864 --> 00:18:52.964 I could basically achieve twice the outcome. 00:18:54.924 --> 00:18:58.984 So this was, I mean, this is where I say like basically, okay, 00:18:59.784 --> 00:19:03.084 building a startup requires just a lot of time. 00:19:03.084 --> 00:19:08.704 And if you speak with other successful founders and ask them about, 00:19:08.804 --> 00:19:13.224 okay, what actually in the beginning, especially how many hours have you worked a day? 00:19:15.444 --> 00:19:19.244 I think many would answer that it was way above 40 hours. 00:19:19.924 --> 00:19:32.204 So work-life balance comes for me at least right after I have brought the company to a certain stage. 00:19:33.084 --> 00:19:37.604 Currently, it's like 100% the company and nothing else. 00:19:43.261 --> 00:19:48.901 Okay. Link11 is known for its cutting-edge technology and innovation. 00:19:49.181 --> 00:19:54.081 How do you stay ahead of the curve in such a fast-paced and competitive industry? 00:19:54.481 --> 00:20:00.341 Yeah, indeed. Also, not only that the technology shifts very fast, 00:20:00.521 --> 00:20:05.981 also it's a kind of cat-and-mouse game because you have the hackers who develop 00:20:05.981 --> 00:20:10.401 new threads and you always need to keep pace with that. 00:20:11.601 --> 00:20:21.681 So the kind of good source for keeping pace with that is your customer base. 00:20:22.721 --> 00:20:27.841 So our customers, as already said, we are setting to very technical people, 00:20:27.841 --> 00:20:34.761 and they are all very great minds and a great source for ideas and inspiration. 00:20:35.661 --> 00:20:40.561 You just need to listen very carefully to them. You need to find the time to speak with them. 00:20:40.961 --> 00:20:45.561 You need to find the common challenges between the different individual statements 00:20:45.561 --> 00:20:48.581 of this customer base, of these feedbacks. 00:20:48.661 --> 00:20:56.521 But speaking to your clients is very, very often the best source of inspiration 00:20:56.521 --> 00:20:58.681 and great business ideas. 00:21:00.661 --> 00:21:03.661 Yes, customer-centric, I see. 00:21:04.541 --> 00:21:09.761 For our audience, I would be curious what innovative tools or strategies have 00:21:09.761 --> 00:21:13.941 to help you to stay ahead in your business. Share them with us. 00:21:15.581 --> 00:21:21.361 Jens, can you walk us through a specific instance when you had to pivot or adjust 00:21:21.361 --> 00:21:26.401 Link11's approach in response to market challenges or new cybersecurity threats? 00:21:27.601 --> 00:21:32.161 I would say DDoS is some kind of evergreen topic. 00:21:33.661 --> 00:21:40.281 Good and bad on the same time because if if there are new cyber threats um in our sector, 00:21:40.781 --> 00:21:44.661 we could adopt to them and we could we could develop new solutions but ddos 00:21:44.661 --> 00:21:50.301 is like already existing since 20 30 years and probably will exist also for 00:21:50.301 --> 00:21:56.041 the next 20 to 30 years so we have the situation that there was not like a real 00:21:56.041 --> 00:22:00.181 pivot need in terms of these um data solution, 00:22:00.341 --> 00:22:02.721 what we have, right, which is type of our core business. 00:22:03.761 --> 00:22:12.141 But while the threat of data attacks was there and is still there and also increases, 00:22:12.521 --> 00:22:17.401 now our customers also facing other threats and other cyber attacks. 00:22:17.621 --> 00:22:23.061 And therefore, the customers are demanding more like a platform solution instead 00:22:23.061 --> 00:22:28.341 of a single capability solution. 00:22:28.341 --> 00:22:33.481 And this is a kind of special situation because you know in the past it was 00:22:33.481 --> 00:22:37.341 good enough to have the best details mitigation service, 00:22:38.211 --> 00:22:45.071 Because customers tend to buy best in breed. But now customers want to have vendor consolidation. 00:22:45.091 --> 00:22:48.371 They want to have a single vendor providing more solutions. 00:22:49.171 --> 00:22:51.791 And therefore, it's super important to have multiple products. 00:22:52.011 --> 00:22:56.931 Which was then kind of a pivot for us to get out of the dealer space and offer 00:22:56.931 --> 00:22:59.831 a more broader service range. 00:23:00.071 --> 00:23:05.351 And luckily, we have already anticipated this trend and made some strategic 00:23:05.351 --> 00:23:10.951 acquisitions. So, part of the product portfolio we are now offering was developed by ourselves. 00:23:11.211 --> 00:23:15.071 Part of the product portfolio and what we are offering was through strategic 00:23:15.071 --> 00:23:21.591 acquisitions, which was some kind of pivotal moment for us and some kind of 00:23:21.591 --> 00:23:24.311 change in terms of strategy. 00:23:25.511 --> 00:23:30.971 And if you are still nowadays, I would say some kind of one trick pony, 00:23:31.251 --> 00:23:38.411 that would be very challenging in nowadays buying behavior who really tends 00:23:38.411 --> 00:23:43.011 to have more like a platform solution instead of an island solution. 00:23:43.251 --> 00:23:49.091 Going a little bit into a more scaling mindset, 00:23:49.671 --> 00:23:55.631 what do you think is the most difficult task, the most difficult aspect in scaling 00:23:55.631 --> 00:24:00.191 a tech company and how would you advise other founders to approach it? 00:24:00.711 --> 00:24:07.391 Three very difficult points. Hiring, hiring, hiring. 00:24:09.911 --> 00:24:16.271 So I would say because, I mean, now we have this huge AI boom and maybe then 00:24:16.271 --> 00:24:24.111 it changed a little bit because you need to hire less human workforce and can leverage AI. 00:24:24.111 --> 00:24:27.411 I mean, nowadays you have companies which only have five employees and are very 00:24:27.411 --> 00:24:32.031 successful, but generally speaking, I think hiring is one of the most challenging, 00:24:32.851 --> 00:24:35.811 aspect of scaling a tech company because, 00:24:37.518 --> 00:24:46.478 Well, it's usually not the big issue to have enough applications for a certain shop. 00:24:46.638 --> 00:24:51.558 I mean, we, for example, have more than 2,000 applications just for seven open positions. 00:24:52.778 --> 00:24:56.638 So the challenge is not to get the applications and to find the talent. 00:24:56.778 --> 00:25:01.718 The challenge is to hire the best talent out of this pool. especially if you 00:25:01.718 --> 00:25:07.618 are competing in a market with US competitors which usually have higher salaries 00:25:07.618 --> 00:25:09.218 than the European counterparts. 00:25:09.698 --> 00:25:12.838 So this really become a very tricky point. 00:25:13.058 --> 00:25:19.898 And if you hire the wrong people, you're not only using obviously money, 00:25:19.898 --> 00:25:25.838 but you're using also a lot of time and a lot of pace. 00:25:25.838 --> 00:25:32.818 And this is really, I would say, the most challenging part of scaling the company 00:25:32.818 --> 00:25:35.498 and especially scaling the company very, very fast. 00:25:36.498 --> 00:25:40.758 Actually, my next question was about hiring, building a strong team. 00:25:40.958 --> 00:25:49.398 I would be curious, what qualities do you look for in hiring those people in order to scale? 00:25:50.138 --> 00:25:56.998 We believe that at the end, attitude and mindset matters the most. 00:25:58.138 --> 00:26:04.858 So basically, if you have a very well-skilled applicant, but he's lazy, 00:26:05.558 --> 00:26:08.658 then this is not a good hire. 00:26:08.798 --> 00:26:13.098 So better hire somebody who really works hard, who wants to achieve something, 00:26:13.258 --> 00:26:18.658 who really leans in, because he can learn most of the things which are necessary. 00:26:19.398 --> 00:26:27.238 And so mindset mindset is super important i would say like the single most important, 00:26:29.497 --> 00:26:37.157 And then obviously culture fit, which also belongs somehow to a kind of mindset, right? 00:26:37.237 --> 00:26:43.697 I mean, if we have a culture where people want to win, and where we want to 00:26:43.697 --> 00:26:47.337 be successful, and we really lean in, and we are very supportive to each other. 00:26:48.017 --> 00:26:53.477 We basically have the motto that when we work hard, we also work with a lot 00:26:53.477 --> 00:27:01.177 of fun. So, this culture map or this culture match obviously needs to be achieved. 00:27:01.637 --> 00:27:10.377 Otherwise, the higher, the new person won't feel comfortable in the environment and also vice versa. 00:27:12.977 --> 00:27:18.017 Interesting. But as we know, culture eats strategy for breakfast. first. 00:27:18.177 --> 00:27:26.377 I was curious because you apparently do have partnerships in Link 11 and what role did they play? 00:27:26.557 --> 00:27:30.957 Because I read that you do have currently in one press release, 00:27:31.097 --> 00:27:34.517 I don't know if it's up to date, 11 locations across the world. 00:27:34.597 --> 00:27:37.977 I do believe that also works with partnerships of some kind. 00:27:38.137 --> 00:27:44.257 And what are the most important ones and how did they work for you in order to help to scale? 00:27:44.837 --> 00:27:51.097 Our partnerships were very long time focused on go-to-market partnerships. 00:27:52.117 --> 00:27:58.457 So as we have developed a great solution, we only had a small amount of workforce 00:27:58.457 --> 00:28:04.437 for selling these solutions and also only limited capabilities in terms of marketing. 00:28:04.737 --> 00:28:12.577 So we have leveraged very, very early already partnerships from a go-to-market perspective. 00:28:13.517 --> 00:28:19.117 So meaning finding organizations, data center providers, hosting companies, 00:28:20.017 --> 00:28:26.677 managed service provider, consultancy organizations who help us with putting 00:28:26.677 --> 00:28:29.797 our technology and our product to the customer base. 00:28:30.457 --> 00:28:39.337 And while this was already the focus since quite a long, We have now also extended 00:28:39.337 --> 00:28:44.017 this focus to look more towards OAM partnerships, 00:28:44.417 --> 00:28:46.357 integrations, tech partnerships, 00:28:46.797 --> 00:28:51.097 to not only leveraging from a go-to-market perspective, 00:28:51.257 --> 00:28:58.257 but also more from a product and strategic perspective, which is obviously a 00:28:58.257 --> 00:29:05.937 different kind of tactic and also very different from each other. 00:29:05.937 --> 00:29:09.897 But we believe if we are successful with these kind of partnerships, 00:29:09.897 --> 00:29:13.017 this would definitely make a huge difference. 00:29:13.017 --> 00:29:21.037 And we also believe that joining forces and achieving something together does 00:29:21.037 --> 00:29:24.237 not only make more fun, but also generates greater outcome. 00:29:25.698 --> 00:29:35.758 I see. We talked about cybersecurity here a lot, and it is definitely an evolving space. 00:29:35.958 --> 00:29:45.698 I would be curious, what kind of trends are you looking for right now in a professional term? 00:29:45.698 --> 00:29:51.458 And on a private level, I do have the tendency to always ask all my guests in 00:29:51.458 --> 00:29:57.858 cybersecurity, on what level is your paranoia for your company and you personally 00:29:57.858 --> 00:29:59.458 in terms of cybersecurity? 00:30:02.438 --> 00:30:06.258 Well, which of both should I answer first? 00:30:08.178 --> 00:30:16.858 Well, let's start with the trends. there are currently three big trends in the cybersecurity space. 00:30:17.958 --> 00:30:23.738 And I mean, the first trend is very much in common with like in all industries. 00:30:23.798 --> 00:30:26.398 And we're speaking about the age of AI. 00:30:27.678 --> 00:30:35.178 So AI does not only make the companies and the workforce more efficient, 00:30:35.178 --> 00:30:40.478 It also makes the criminals and the attackers more efficient. 00:30:41.518 --> 00:30:47.438 So, beside of super complex phishing attacks where you have like emulated video, 00:30:47.858 --> 00:30:55.038 voice, audio, and so on, which is super hard to detect, 00:30:55.038 --> 00:31:01.878 You also have more and more complex AI attacks on network and application layers 00:31:01.878 --> 00:31:04.178 using more sophisticated tactics, 00:31:04.818 --> 00:31:09.698 more human looking traffic and approach than ever before. 00:31:10.078 --> 00:31:13.818 Because I mean, in cybersecurity, it's always a challenge to find out, 00:31:13.958 --> 00:31:18.118 okay, what is legit versus what is like malicious. 00:31:19.038 --> 00:31:24.058 And the more it looks like human traffic, the more difficult it is to identify it. 00:31:24.915 --> 00:31:31.655 So AI definitely changes the game and it also will create a lot of more cyber 00:31:31.655 --> 00:31:34.295 attacks because with like vibe coding and so on. 00:31:34.415 --> 00:31:41.835 And yes, currently many models block such requests, but there are also AIs out 00:31:41.835 --> 00:31:46.055 there which don't block any malicious activity where you can ask an AI to say 00:31:46.055 --> 00:31:48.035 like, hey, please develop me a virus. 00:31:48.255 --> 00:31:54.315 Please develop me an attack, Adidas attack program and application and similar 00:31:54.315 --> 00:31:59.295 things. So this would just basically increase the amount of attacks and also 00:31:59.295 --> 00:32:01.355 increase very much the sophistication of attack. 00:32:01.575 --> 00:32:09.075 So this is trend number one, AI, which makes cyber attacks more serious and more often. 00:32:10.095 --> 00:32:17.475 And then the second trend in cybersecurity is the so-called shift-left approach. 00:32:17.475 --> 00:32:22.295 With shift left approach basically mean that in the past, 00:32:22.475 --> 00:32:27.315 you had like classical development, and then you had like a DevOps team who 00:32:27.315 --> 00:32:32.135 operating the application, and sometimes you had a network team, 00:32:32.135 --> 00:32:35.395 and then you had somewhere at the end, the security team. 00:32:35.875 --> 00:32:40.755 So, which means like, okay, then the security guys need to live with whatever 00:32:40.755 --> 00:32:44.875 they receive from the development and application team and from the operating 00:32:44.875 --> 00:32:50.395 team, and then trying to build the walls around it and fix it and make it secure. 00:32:51.095 --> 00:32:56.515 And the shift left approach is like to put cybersecurity more towards the development 00:32:56.515 --> 00:32:59.775 of the application and like native integrations in the applications. 00:33:01.875 --> 00:33:05.335 And this, at the end, will hopefully lead to, 00:33:06.135 --> 00:33:11.535 I mean, the idea is that this leads to more safer applications and not only 00:33:11.535 --> 00:33:16.035 like patching vulnerabilities, but also avoiding vulnerabilities and creating 00:33:16.035 --> 00:33:17.395 overall and saver environment. 00:33:18.884 --> 00:33:27.304 I hope that the AI applications, which are now generated, also has a nice security 00:33:27.304 --> 00:33:29.104 concept already integrated. 00:33:29.984 --> 00:33:36.844 And the third big trend in cybersecurity is the so-called zero trust trend. 00:33:36.844 --> 00:33:42.904 So zero trust means in cybersecurity, basically, 00:33:43.404 --> 00:33:49.704 that you need to design your architecture, 00:33:49.984 --> 00:33:57.764 your IT architecture in a way that you could not longer trust the other devices 00:33:57.764 --> 00:33:59.144 in your network, for example. 00:33:59.144 --> 00:34:05.164 But also, you are not 100% sure if you could trust the current request and application 00:34:05.164 --> 00:34:08.984 and also the user in front of this application. 00:34:10.864 --> 00:34:15.744 So imagine a very, very simple kind of zero trust initiative. 00:34:16.104 --> 00:34:20.684 Imagine you are in an office and you leave your computer, right? 00:34:20.904 --> 00:34:23.344 Normally, you say like, yeah, no issue. I left my computer. 00:34:23.684 --> 00:34:26.804 What should happen? All of the people here in the building are working for the 00:34:26.804 --> 00:34:31.884 same organization. All of these people here in the building are good humans, 00:34:32.124 --> 00:34:33.544 so nothing could happen. 00:34:34.864 --> 00:34:38.064