WEBVTT 00:00:00.017 --> 00:00:03.237 I would have bought Bitcoin at one cent or at one euro. 00:00:03.817 --> 00:00:06.777 The rest of the things, all the mistakes that I've done as a founder, 00:00:07.177 --> 00:00:08.797 I would redo them the same. 00:00:09.137 --> 00:00:14.057 They are what I am right now, and I am grateful for all those mistakes and for 00:00:14.057 --> 00:00:16.537 all those failures, no matter how hard they have been. 00:00:17.077 --> 00:00:19.157 Every one of them has been a teaching moment. 00:00:20.240 --> 00:00:40.080 00:00:24.757 --> 00:00:33.137 Welcome to startuprad.io your podcast and youtube blog covering the german startup 00:00:33.137 --> 00:00:37.617 scene with news interviews and live events 00:00:39.557 --> 00:00:45.337 Hello and welcome everybody this is joe from startuprad.io the authority on 00:00:45.337 --> 00:00:46.857 german swiss and Austrian startups. 00:00:47.057 --> 00:00:51.077 And today we've got a powerhouse episode for founders, SaaS builders, 00:00:51.377 --> 00:00:52.797 and tech investors alike. 00:00:52.997 --> 00:00:58.677 What if the next breakout SaaS company for accounting firms came from the back 00:00:58.677 --> 00:01:01.697 office of a bookkeeping firm in Switzerland? 00:01:01.937 --> 00:01:06.357 We're sitting down with Blas, by the way, he spared me pronouncing his family name, 00:01:06.717 --> 00:01:10.317 a serial entrepreneur who bootstrapped his first company at just 18, 00:01:10.657 --> 00:01:16.077 made a few successful exits, learned from failure, and is now sailing Scaling 00:01:16.077 --> 00:01:21.097 Sequence, a B2B SaaS platform turning hats across Europe. 00:01:21.537 --> 00:01:28.977 Sequence started as internal accounting software, evolved into robust AI-enabled 00:01:28.977 --> 00:01:34.857 ERP system for small companies, and recently caught attention of several major 00:01:34.857 --> 00:01:35.917 investors in Switzerland. 00:01:36.237 --> 00:01:42.017 In this episode, you'll hear how Blast turned a back office tool into venture 00:01:42.017 --> 00:01:47.477 back scale up, What it takes to build SaaS products with product market fit 00:01:47.477 --> 00:01:48.797 in a conservative industry, 00:01:49.037 --> 00:01:51.997 his most painful lessons on entrepreneurship, 00:01:52.257 --> 00:01:53.937 failure and bouncing back, and 00:01:53.937 --> 00:01:58.817 the playbook for scaling from Spain to Switzerland to global relevance. 00:01:59.137 --> 00:02:03.457 If you're a founder, VC, accounting tech innovator, or just love stories about 00:02:03.457 --> 00:02:09.297 building software that actually solves boring but critical problems, this one is for you. 00:02:09.457 --> 00:02:12.317 Guys, don't forget to subscribe and last, welcome. 00:02:13.290 --> 00:02:16.010 Hi, Joe. Very happy to be here. Thanks for having me. 00:02:16.510 --> 00:02:20.810 Totally my pleasure. For our audience, can you first once pronounce your family name? 00:02:21.390 --> 00:02:24.330 Yes, yes. I'll go ahead. It's Pechenaut. It's a Spanish name. 00:02:24.790 --> 00:02:26.030 Notice to say Pechenaut. 00:02:27.130 --> 00:02:31.510 Okay. Muchas gracias. You saved me from pronouncing that. 00:02:31.590 --> 00:02:35.290 Gracias, Joe. Yeah, I know. You know, it's a hard one. In French, 00:02:35.470 --> 00:02:39.370 they say Pechenaut. So, you know, I cannot have both versions. They're going for me. 00:02:39.370 --> 00:02:45.030 Yes, especially since you have three languages in Switzerland. 00:02:45.030 --> 00:02:48.110 I think that the French-speaking area would prefer that one. 00:02:48.330 --> 00:02:55.030 Talking about you, founder journey and origin story, you started your first company at 18. 00:02:55.350 --> 00:02:57.510 What sparked your interest in entrepreneurship? 00:02:58.690 --> 00:03:02.230 Listen, Joe, I've always been that way. 00:03:02.590 --> 00:03:05.810 I started really working when I was very young. 00:03:05.810 --> 00:03:09.670 I started in the night industry I 00:03:09.670 --> 00:03:14.030 started creating parties when I was 16 years old I couldn't go to the nightclub 00:03:14.030 --> 00:03:18.610 and I was already organizing stuff so that was a pretty fun moment for me and 00:03:18.610 --> 00:03:23.030 I've always wanted to do things in a very particular and peculiar way which 00:03:23.030 --> 00:03:26.690 was my own way and at 18 I found, 00:03:27.790 --> 00:03:28.990 that artists, 00:03:30.210 --> 00:03:32.530 namely electronic music artists 00:03:32.530 --> 00:03:36.670 were very good at creating music but very bad at telling themselves. 00:03:37.210 --> 00:03:40.830 And I was very good at sales and very bad at creating music. 00:03:41.310 --> 00:03:47.250 So I created my first company called Fresh and Blunt, and it started like an 00:03:47.250 --> 00:03:48.770 artist management agency. 00:03:49.050 --> 00:03:55.930 We were taking local artists and giving them national or international exposure. 00:03:56.150 --> 00:04:01.010 And then we started organizing festivals and helping running a couple of clubs. 00:04:01.010 --> 00:04:07.050 Let me understand this step from doing parties, electronic music, 00:04:07.630 --> 00:04:10.890 to internal accounting tool. How did that happen? 00:04:11.650 --> 00:04:16.730 It's been a fun ride, to be honest. 00:04:17.190 --> 00:04:23.330 So I started managing, as I said, artists and electronic music parties. 00:04:23.710 --> 00:04:26.910 Then I moved out of Spain into the UK. 00:04:27.590 --> 00:04:31.590 I kept working on the night industry, and at some point I hit a wall. 00:04:33.032 --> 00:04:36.172 I couldn't do really what I wanted to do into the industry. 00:04:36.392 --> 00:04:42.132 And I went into plain hospitality. I started managing a cocktail bar and a restaurant. 00:04:42.852 --> 00:04:50.692 And then from there, I got scouted by a Chinese company to introduce in Spain 00:04:50.692 --> 00:04:53.012 and Portugal electronic cigarettes. 00:04:53.372 --> 00:04:59.672 I'm talking, you know, early 2010s, where there were no A6s anywhere. 00:04:59.672 --> 00:05:06.052 So actually, if you vaped in Spain in between 2010 and 2012, 00:05:06.412 --> 00:05:11.912 there's a big percentage of chances that I did that import and that distribution. 00:05:12.652 --> 00:05:18.852 And then from there, I got recruited by a Swiss entrepreneur who wanted to build 00:05:18.852 --> 00:05:24.192 a startup on electronic cigarettes. And that's who brought me here to Switzerland. 00:05:24.672 --> 00:05:28.632 All around these years, I've always faced the same issues. 00:05:29.692 --> 00:05:36.192 Admin and accounting, it's a pain for every single entrepreneur out there, myself the first. 00:05:37.512 --> 00:05:41.812 So when I came into Switzerland, I faced the hard truth of the Swiss market. 00:05:41.812 --> 00:05:47.152 It's a fantastic market, but everything is very open-minded and in accounting 00:05:47.152 --> 00:05:48.912 as well. So there's no real structure. 00:05:49.372 --> 00:05:51.072 Everyone can do it in a different way. 00:05:51.692 --> 00:05:55.352 You obviously need to be compliant, but to get too compliant, 00:05:55.472 --> 00:05:58.092 you can do it in different ways. So I was struggling a lot. 00:05:58.632 --> 00:06:02.572 And that company got acquired, and that was great. 00:06:02.852 --> 00:06:09.732 But at some point in 2021, a very good friend of mine, he showed me this accounting 00:06:09.732 --> 00:06:13.032 software that he was building. And I was like, hold on a minute. 00:06:13.392 --> 00:06:20.172 This is exactly what I've been looking for my whole career as an entrepreneur. 00:06:20.652 --> 00:06:25.512 Let's take this stuff from an accounting software and building on an automated 00:06:25.512 --> 00:06:28.252 and AI accounting software for SMEs. 00:06:28.632 --> 00:06:33.712 So that's the whole trajectory up until accounting. 00:06:36.892 --> 00:06:40.872 Before we go into the next questions, you ran a bar. What was your favorite cocktail? 00:06:42.432 --> 00:06:47.552 Oh, wow. I used to love Ponce de Martini. 00:06:48.212 --> 00:06:53.912 If I don't mind that the bartender looks weird at me, a good old-fashioned. 00:06:54.172 --> 00:06:58.312 It takes a little bit of time to make. So when you go to a cocktail bar and 00:06:58.312 --> 00:07:01.312 you ask for an old-fashioned, the guy's not going to like you very much because 00:07:01.312 --> 00:07:04.052 they need to stir it for a long time. And I'm a whiskey lover. 00:07:05.092 --> 00:07:08.712 But yeah, I even got certification to make cocktails. 00:07:09.212 --> 00:07:13.192 I knew. I don't know them anymore, but I knew how to make 120-something cocktails. 00:07:13.652 --> 00:07:16.112 It was pretty fun. It was pretty fun, Joe. 00:07:17.112 --> 00:07:19.612 What is your favorite cocktail, Joe? 00:07:22.689 --> 00:07:24.449 I like Planter's Punch. 00:07:25.449 --> 00:07:33.169 Nice. Nice. Nice. When was the last time that you drank a good Planter's Punch and where? 00:07:34.109 --> 00:07:36.569 Last weekend here in the balcony with my wife. 00:07:38.649 --> 00:07:43.489 Oh, fantastic. Fantastic. What was the name of the place? Let's give them a shout out. 00:07:44.829 --> 00:07:46.729 No, here, just on our balcony. 00:07:47.469 --> 00:07:48.289 You made it? 00:07:48.729 --> 00:07:49.269 Yes. 00:07:50.049 --> 00:07:53.989 You are a master. That's great. So you know your way around cocktails? 00:07:55.109 --> 00:07:55.709 Maybe. 00:07:56.809 --> 00:08:01.369 Fantastic. I hope we can meet one day and I can taste your planter sponge. 00:08:01.649 --> 00:08:07.089 I will make you an Amaretto Sour that you may like as well. 00:08:07.309 --> 00:08:09.089 I also like Negroni. 00:08:09.689 --> 00:08:14.269 Oh, yeah. Negroni. Very nice. Next time you go and ask for a Negroni, 00:08:14.749 --> 00:08:17.149 check a Negroni Svaliato. 00:08:17.889 --> 00:08:28.449 So it's a regular Negroni, but it has a top of soda, a little bit of sparking 00:08:28.449 --> 00:08:30.789 wine, like Prosecco, you know. 00:08:31.169 --> 00:08:33.749 So it's a Negroni with a little bit of Prosecco. Try it out. 00:08:33.869 --> 00:08:35.529 Very nice. Negroni is Valleato. 00:08:35.689 --> 00:08:40.569 I also do have my personal recipe on this, but that would lead a little bit 00:08:40.569 --> 00:08:48.729 too much astray. I was originally trying to ask you, you've been working with 00:08:48.729 --> 00:08:50.309 the back office accounting software. 00:08:50.449 --> 00:08:56.089 What was like the aha moment that convinced you you could really scale this? 00:08:57.294 --> 00:09:01.334 Listen, the first one was very much internal. It's when Jonathan, 00:09:01.614 --> 00:09:05.854 the real founder of Sequence, showed me what he was building. 00:09:06.754 --> 00:09:12.214 When he showed it to me, I was the first aha. Like, I've been looking for this my whole life. 00:09:12.694 --> 00:09:17.134 I've been looking for a software that can allow me to automate my accounting. 00:09:17.514 --> 00:09:19.394 So that was the first aha moment. 00:09:20.034 --> 00:09:25.854 Then when we reworked that internal tool into an external SaaS and we went into 00:09:25.854 --> 00:09:30.434 the market, The market's aha moment was when a client of ours, 00:09:30.754 --> 00:09:34.734 one of the first clients, his payment on the card didn't go through. 00:09:35.274 --> 00:09:39.254 And the guy was calling me on a Sunday saying, please, please, 00:09:39.414 --> 00:09:41.074 please reactivate the software. 00:09:41.314 --> 00:09:44.594 I cannot believe without Sequence. I need to do the invoices. 00:09:45.674 --> 00:09:49.134 I need to get back the subscription. And that was when we said, 00:09:49.334 --> 00:09:55.314 hey, maybe we got into something that really is helping SMEs and freelancers 00:09:55.314 --> 00:09:58.734 out there to do their invoicing and accounting much easier. 00:10:01.454 --> 00:10:07.914 I see. I was wondering for our audience, what's one thing you wish you had known 00:10:07.914 --> 00:10:11.014 when starting your business? Share your wisdom in the comments. 00:10:11.234 --> 00:10:13.334 We might feature you in a future episode. 00:10:13.954 --> 00:10:19.354 Talking about transition and resilience here, you've had exits and setbacks. 00:10:19.554 --> 00:10:22.394 Tell us about the failure that changed your approach. 00:10:23.294 --> 00:10:25.694 Any failure? Any point in my career? 00:10:28.054 --> 00:10:32.314 One that had special importance for you. 00:10:32.634 --> 00:10:41.854 Yeah. So my first company, okay, fresh and blunt, I had to shut it down in 48 hours. 00:10:43.194 --> 00:10:50.894 Very abruptly. Because I was very bad at selling an event that I didn't follow 00:10:50.894 --> 00:10:54.294 up correctly with the owner of the nightclub that I was selling that to. 00:10:54.674 --> 00:10:59.314 And he was so powerful and he gave me a call and he said, you did such a bad 00:10:59.314 --> 00:11:02.654 job that you're not going to be able to work in here anymore. 00:11:02.794 --> 00:11:07.394 And I couldn't believe it. And 48 hours later, all my artists had to leave the 00:11:07.394 --> 00:11:11.934 agency, otherwise they couldn't be playing music anymore in the north of Spain. 00:11:13.234 --> 00:11:20.854 And that taught me a lot about facing conflict and issues. I was running away 00:11:20.854 --> 00:11:27.014 from saying to this guy that I couldn't deliver on the talks that we were having. 00:11:27.314 --> 00:11:33.134 And because I didn't do that, by the time I did it, he took it so, 00:11:33.254 --> 00:11:36.294 so badly. And he was right. 00:11:37.374 --> 00:11:43.694 That tanked my company. That absolutely tanked my company. Yeah. So that was a big one. 00:11:46.383 --> 00:11:53.583 I see, I see. Even though many are usually doing over-promising and under-deliver, 00:11:53.683 --> 00:11:55.863 but for some, it just doesn't work out. 00:11:57.023 --> 00:12:02.903 How did your relocation to Switzerland shape your mindset as a founder? 00:12:03.123 --> 00:12:05.523 And by the way, do you already love fondue? 00:12:07.463 --> 00:12:12.963 I love fondue. Sweets are going to kill me, but my favorite fondue is tomato fondue. 00:12:14.603 --> 00:12:18.543 I know Switzerland is absolutely going to kill me right now because they hate 00:12:18.543 --> 00:12:22.123 it, but I love it because for me it's like drinking pizza and pizza is one of 00:12:22.123 --> 00:12:24.863 my favorite drinking pizza, 00:12:26.263 --> 00:12:33.643 it's like drinking pizza man, it's fantastic so coming to Switzerland was a 00:12:33.643 --> 00:12:36.623 very big change for me, I was coming from pure. 00:12:38.623 --> 00:12:44.283 High-paced environment and countries I was living, you know, 00:12:44.383 --> 00:12:49.403 at the time I was, I went from London to living half in Marbella, 00:12:49.643 --> 00:12:52.243 half in France, traveling all over the place. 00:12:52.423 --> 00:12:54.663 And I arrived into France, into Switzerland, sorry. 00:12:54.883 --> 00:13:01.743 And it was so calm and peaceful and everybody was so respectful. 00:13:01.743 --> 00:13:05.023 You know, I really, really, really liked it a lot. 00:13:05.323 --> 00:13:10.303 I know a lot of people, they don't, they say it's too slow for them, 00:13:10.883 --> 00:13:15.323 for me, they put a great balance because it allows me to be calm when I'm in 00:13:15.323 --> 00:13:17.963 Switzerland and high pace when I'm outside. 00:13:18.303 --> 00:13:23.043 As a founder, the mentality of the market is much different than anywhere in 00:13:23.043 --> 00:13:25.443 Europe that I've been doing business before. 00:13:25.883 --> 00:13:30.223 It's a very conservative market, a very risk adverse market. 00:13:30.483 --> 00:13:35.783 If you want to raise funds in here and you're not in biotech, good luck to you. 00:13:37.183 --> 00:13:41.083 That has changed a little bit in the last 12 months thanks to AI and the hubs 00:13:41.083 --> 00:13:44.683 that they're doing in Zurich and thanks to crypto in the crypto valley in Neuchatel 00:13:44.683 --> 00:13:49.423 and I get that but historically it has been a little bit complex to raise funds 00:13:49.423 --> 00:13:52.723 in here so it made me a founder, 00:13:53.683 --> 00:13:59.523 more based on facts with a little bit of storytelling always storytelling it's 00:13:59.523 --> 00:14:02.843 always important to do storytelling but you cannot bullshit your way around 00:14:02.843 --> 00:14:07.623 Switzerland if there's no facts and that there are no unit economics back in 00:14:07.623 --> 00:14:09.623 your business, for sure. 00:14:10.163 --> 00:14:10.883 Mm-hmm. 00:14:11.806 --> 00:14:15.866 Talking about a little bit your product vision and market positioning, 00:14:16.286 --> 00:14:20.546 what's broken in current ERP and accounting software? 00:14:20.966 --> 00:14:25.526 It's so goddamn hard to use. That's it. That's it. 00:14:26.046 --> 00:14:30.746 Yeah, I have to admit I've been working for quite some consultancies in the 00:14:30.746 --> 00:14:33.066 past and I'm dramatized by SAP. 00:14:34.006 --> 00:14:38.446 Yeah, that is, wow. Yes, that's a big one. 00:14:38.666 --> 00:14:43.726 That's a big one. And yes, if you have a gazillion bucks lying around or you're 00:14:43.726 --> 00:14:49.146 a big company, you can pay a consultant to run SAP for you and customize it for you. 00:14:49.446 --> 00:14:52.786 It's still going to be hard to use, but you're going to have a full team of people doing it. 00:14:52.926 --> 00:14:56.466 But when you're a freelancer and you need to be looking at your numbers, 00:14:57.346 --> 00:15:01.746 right now there's not many things out there that can work for you in Switzerland. 00:15:02.046 --> 00:15:06.666 In Europe, there are good initiatives. In the States, fantastic software being created. 00:15:06.666 --> 00:15:12.166 But here in Switzerland, firsthand, I can tell it's very hard to find one that 00:15:12.166 --> 00:15:16.146 is easy to use and that you prefer to use the software rather than doing your 00:15:16.146 --> 00:15:18.066 invoices on Word or on Excel. 00:15:19.646 --> 00:15:22.546 So I think that's an issue. 00:15:22.666 --> 00:15:25.686 And then even if you're using a software and you're doing it yourself, 00:15:26.046 --> 00:15:30.546 then you need to go into an accounting firm and pay a small fortune to do your 00:15:30.546 --> 00:15:34.586 taxes and run your books. So that's quite inefficient. 00:15:35.546 --> 00:15:38.546 I believe that is quite, we believe that is quite inefficient. Yeah. 00:15:39.726 --> 00:15:45.886 Also here in Germany, you have the duty by now to have electronic invoicing. 00:15:46.166 --> 00:15:51.026 Also, depending on how and where you invoice, also electronic invoicing, 00:15:51.246 --> 00:15:53.026 machine readability, and so on and so forth. 00:15:53.206 --> 00:15:55.366 So you cannot use any software. 00:15:55.626 --> 00:16:00.066 Talking about any software, how do you guys sequence your piece sent out from 00:16:00.066 --> 00:16:03.326 competitors like Sage, Xero or QuickBooks? 00:16:04.091 --> 00:16:08.831 Well, we are going in the direction of becoming a full-stack company, okay? 00:16:09.371 --> 00:16:14.671 Sage, Shed and QuickBooks are fantastic pieces of software. I cannot say it again. 00:16:14.931 --> 00:16:17.731 I cannot say it enough. They're very good softwares. 00:16:18.971 --> 00:16:22.191 You may want to run QuickBooks. Now, QuickBooks in Switzerland, 00:16:22.191 --> 00:16:23.651 you cannot be running it. 00:16:24.171 --> 00:16:28.811 Sage, you can, but then the adaptation is going to be hard. Shed is the same. 00:16:29.511 --> 00:16:34.791 So you're going to have a hard time getting those to work in the Swiss market out of the bat. 00:16:35.231 --> 00:16:39.991 Now, I said we want to become a full stack company, and that's where we're really 00:16:39.991 --> 00:16:42.971 seeing us in two or three years. 00:16:44.411 --> 00:16:50.671 Accounting software is hard to use. Accountants, you know, have a lot of manual work. 00:16:51.371 --> 00:16:59.771 Our mission is to blend both into an AI operative system where SMEs can run 00:16:59.771 --> 00:17:04.411 their books by simply uploading documents and the software. 00:17:04.671 --> 00:17:07.551 That's the rest with very minimal human interaction. 00:17:08.071 --> 00:17:11.611 I don't think any of these guys are going in this direction. We certainly are. 00:17:12.031 --> 00:17:18.731 And if I may, just a little scoop for the guys that are listening to us out there. 00:17:18.731 --> 00:17:23.771 It's not yet public, but three weeks ago, 00:17:24.091 --> 00:17:31.411 we got a license from FinMath to be a 1B light bank or a fintech company, 00:17:31.691 --> 00:17:36.711 which means that by the end of the year, we will be able to open multi-currency 00:17:36.711 --> 00:17:40.551 accounts and give cards to sequence users. 00:17:40.551 --> 00:17:45.011 And that means that as an SME, you're going to have in the same platform, 00:17:45.231 --> 00:17:51.851 your bank, your accountant, and the software, all included and all built on AI. 00:17:54.162 --> 00:18:00.742 That is actually pretty cool, exclusive announcement here on Celebrate.0. Pretty cool. 00:18:02.102 --> 00:18:05.762 For our audience, because we've been talking about accounting systems and they 00:18:05.762 --> 00:18:09.122 are not, let's say, the most intuitive they use most of the time. 00:18:09.262 --> 00:18:13.782 I was wondering, what is the most frustrating software our audience has ever 00:18:13.782 --> 00:18:18.822 used to work at or you could never get to work? How would you redesign it? 00:18:19.182 --> 00:18:23.722 Actually, I have a mission to make Blast. For me, it was kind of printer software 00:18:23.722 --> 00:18:29.042 not going to tell the name of the company who produced it but it's now two years 00:18:29.042 --> 00:18:36.242 um about a dozen friends who some of them studied computer science master's phd degrees and 00:18:36.242 --> 00:18:41.022 Nobody could get it running um anyway. 00:18:41.022 --> 00:18:47.142 Um let's talk a little bit about your growth strategy and gtm um how did you 00:18:47.142 --> 00:18:50.162 acquire your first external customers 00:18:50.162 --> 00:18:53.422 Yeah going to the street outbound pure 00:18:53.422 --> 00:18:56.942 outbound reaching out to people um so 00:18:56.942 --> 00:19:00.002 the founders of sequence they own 00:19:00.002 --> 00:19:04.062 accounting firms so the first clients that we brought in actually are their 00:19:04.062 --> 00:19:09.482 clients obviously and then we went out there into the market with outbound uh 00:19:09.482 --> 00:19:14.802 we started emailing people calling people asking about their issues asking about 00:19:14.802 --> 00:19:16.962 the pain points, understanding what they needed, 00:19:17.222 --> 00:19:20.262 and once the answer to what they needed was what we had, 00:19:20.642 --> 00:19:22.722 then it kind of fell into place. 00:19:25.702 --> 00:19:31.182 What is your current go-to-market strategy and how is it evolving? 00:19:32.629 --> 00:19:39.149 Our current go-to market strategy, and I wish I could call Mercedes, 00:19:39.309 --> 00:19:43.709 our chief product and growth officer here, into the call to get that one. 00:19:44.509 --> 00:19:48.829 It's a blend of inbound and outbound sales. 00:19:49.649 --> 00:19:56.949 We do a lot of inbound generation that then led outbound contacts, 00:19:56.949 --> 00:19:59.229 and we do as well outbound contacts. 00:19:59.349 --> 00:20:02.149 So we have cold calling people. We love cold calling. 00:20:02.829 --> 00:20:08.029 We hard call salespeople. So we pick up the phone and start calling people and 00:20:08.029 --> 00:20:12.509 asking about their pains and asking about their day-to-day and what works and 00:20:12.509 --> 00:20:13.589 what doesn't work on their day. 00:20:14.009 --> 00:20:18.169 And as I said, if one of their pains is something we can give a solution to, 00:20:18.349 --> 00:20:20.189 then, hey, that's fantastic. 00:20:20.329 --> 00:20:23.889 And if it's not, then we try always to give a solution with other products out 00:20:23.889 --> 00:20:28.269 there. And then on the inbound side, we run ads, a lot of ads, 00:20:29.029 --> 00:20:32.149 content, strategy, LinkedIn, content. 00:20:33.509 --> 00:20:39.729 And then, yeah, it's kind of a blend. It evolves constantly. We do a lot of iteration. 00:20:40.249 --> 00:20:43.129 So we have a marketing team that they iterate every month. 00:20:43.189 --> 00:20:50.569 So on a rolling basis, we plan, we execute, we analyze, we improve, 00:20:50.709 --> 00:20:53.269 we repeat. We go on and on and on and on. 00:20:53.969 --> 00:20:59.109 Things that work, we keep them. Things that don't work, we change them, and we just remove them. 00:21:02.549 --> 00:21:08.489 Sounds like a steady improvement cycle. We'll be back with some insights about 00:21:08.489 --> 00:21:12.509 fundraising, investor relations, team and culture, vision and future outlook 00:21:12.509 --> 00:21:14.309 after the small ad break. 00:21:19.529 --> 00:21:26.189 Welcome back to us. You're a serial entrepreneur currently leading a SaaS accounting 00:21:26.189 --> 00:21:27.749 software from Switzerland. 00:21:28.789 --> 00:21:32.989 You've done a lot in the past, and we talked about this already. 00:21:33.229 --> 00:21:36.869 Let's go a little bit into fundraising and investor relations. 00:21:37.929 --> 00:21:43.549 You've raised VC before. What's your best tip for early stage founders to prepare 00:21:43.549 --> 00:21:45.709 for SaaS fundraising rounds? 00:21:46.309 --> 00:21:48.909 Some investors out there are going to kill me, but don't raise. 00:21:51.149 --> 00:21:58.109 You know bootstrap as much as you can um get your metrics in place and then race, 00:21:58.769 --> 00:22:01.529 europe and especially switzerland is very different to 00:22:01.529 --> 00:22:05.729 the states in the states you can definitely go out and race with a fantastic 00:22:05.729 --> 00:22:12.009 plan in europe you're gonna have some metrics locked in and in switzerland those 00:22:12.009 --> 00:22:17.629 metrics need to be even better either you have a successful background behind 00:22:17.629 --> 00:22:20.689 you and you know what to do, or if it is the first time, 00:22:20.929 --> 00:22:26.169 you really need to get those metrics locked in so you can lead the conversations 00:22:26.169 --> 00:22:29.309 with, okay, this is our metrics, this is what we're capable of doing, 00:22:29.829 --> 00:22:31.689 now this is what we want to get, 00:22:32.521 --> 00:22:37.641 And to do that, we not only need cash, which we're raising right now, 00:22:37.761 --> 00:22:42.381 but we also need a partnership that is going to enable us to get there. 00:22:42.541 --> 00:22:45.641 And always look for that smart money. Don't only look for the cash. 00:22:46.141 --> 00:22:50.941 Cash only is not going to get you as far as cash plus partnership plus help. 00:22:51.161 --> 00:22:54.501 Look for those investors that really believe in your business and that they're 00:22:54.501 --> 00:23:01.761 going to help you get and fulfill that vision that you together with them have for your business. 00:23:02.781 --> 00:23:08.961 You talked about metrics. I was wondering what traction metrics or storytelling 00:23:08.961 --> 00:23:11.841 techniques helped you win over investors. 00:23:12.161 --> 00:23:19.021 So sequence, I would assume right now, important roles play a number of paying 00:23:19.021 --> 00:23:22.821 customers, customer acquisition costs, customer lifetime value. 00:23:22.961 --> 00:23:26.841 So basically, the VCs can make a calculation. If we invest X, 00:23:26.841 --> 00:23:28.841 we should get Y, something like that. 00:23:28.841 --> 00:23:32.821 Exactly. So revenue, revenue growth, very important both. 00:23:33.161 --> 00:23:36.921 Out of that revenue, what's recurring and what's not recurring? 00:23:37.201 --> 00:23:43.101 And of that growth, what kind of historic can you show? Have you been growing 00:23:43.101 --> 00:23:44.621 double digits every month? 00:23:45.341 --> 00:23:48.801 Is there any spike? Why not? cost 00:23:48.801 --> 00:23:52.881 of acquisition obviously and lifetime value of your clients if you know your 00:23:52.881 --> 00:23:57.221 lifetime value then you must know your churn that's very important to know your 00:23:57.221 --> 00:24:02.361 churn and if you're in sas daily active users and monthly active users may be 00:24:02.361 --> 00:24:05.961 very interesting now on top of that if you are an ai you, 00:24:06.937 --> 00:24:10.517 and you are on agents if you are on human 00:24:10.517 --> 00:24:13.457 in the loop agents that most of them are right 00:24:13.457 --> 00:24:18.757 now then you need to have your first pass-through rate you need to understand 00:24:18.757 --> 00:24:23.597 how many of the proposals that your agents are making are right from the bat 00:24:23.597 --> 00:24:28.777 and they are accepted how many are slightly modified how many are rejected and 00:24:28.777 --> 00:24:32.317 if you're an autonomous agent what's the accuracy of those agents. 00:24:32.957 --> 00:24:37.337 At the end of the day, a lot of people are kind of selling AI right now, 00:24:37.997 --> 00:24:46.637 but then they don't include any AI metrics in their deck, which is kind of crazy. 00:24:47.817 --> 00:24:51.657 So I think that's very important right now. If you are an AI, 00:24:51.857 --> 00:24:53.517 if not, just skip that stuff. 00:24:53.757 --> 00:24:58.237 I was wondering from my experience, I was in capital markets during MEDOF happened 00:24:58.237 --> 00:25:04.157 and the MEDOF feeder funds have been used its entities He's headquartered in Luxembourg. 00:25:04.257 --> 00:25:08.737 And so basically a lot of those companies said, yeah, it would have never happened 00:25:08.737 --> 00:25:12.437 to us, but you have so much straight to processing, 00:25:12.697 --> 00:25:18.477 automated processing at the time in the funds that basically one user's funds 00:25:18.477 --> 00:25:20.857 would have been treated like another user's fund. 00:25:21.017 --> 00:25:25.677 Do you see any potential for future scammers and how to prevent it with the 00:25:25.677 --> 00:25:30.357 application of a lot of AI agents in accounting and bookkeeping? 00:25:31.237 --> 00:25:36.597 Definitely there is a risk in that, of course. In the same way that there was 00:25:36.597 --> 00:25:41.057 a risk when computers came and invoices started to be done by hand and everybody 00:25:41.057 --> 00:25:44.157 started to do them on a computer, 00:25:44.337 --> 00:25:46.997 there is risk and it is... 00:25:48.420 --> 00:25:57.740 The responsibility, it's a shared responsibility to avoid, to stop that from 00:25:57.740 --> 00:25:59.380 happening. But yeah, of course, there is a risk. 00:25:59.880 --> 00:26:04.400 I've seen articles going around LinkedIn of people that they can create tickets, 00:26:05.240 --> 00:26:08.360 expense tickets, just asking to charge GPT to do that. 00:26:08.560 --> 00:26:13.040 So there's definitely going to be scammers out there. Definitely. 00:26:15.860 --> 00:26:19.500 Going back to my last question about VC, in your experience, 00:26:19.880 --> 00:26:25.220 what are VCs really looking for in the next generation of SaaS platforms? 00:26:27.720 --> 00:26:29.560 I think we should ask that to VCs. 00:26:33.760 --> 00:26:39.120 No, listen, that's a great question, Joe. I hope they're looking stuff like Sequence. 00:26:40.620 --> 00:26:47.040 To be honest what I'm reading right now is that they're looking for full stack 00:26:47.040 --> 00:26:52.140 companies companies that can replace verticals on its own there's no longer 00:26:52.140 --> 00:26:56.900 such thing as the niche SaaS you can just do one thing, 00:26:57.540 --> 00:27:01.900 what they're looking for right now is the companies that they can replace a 00:27:01.900 --> 00:27:05.800 whole vertical it was Y Combinator saying this a month and a half ago, 00:27:07.300 --> 00:27:13.540 they're right now looking into that kind of traction and interaction and automation 00:27:13.540 --> 00:27:19.080 from AI that can come in and say, okay, this has been done manually for years. 00:27:19.280 --> 00:27:22.260 Now, thanks to AI, can be almost fully automated. 00:27:22.640 --> 00:27:27.340 So I think that's really what they're looking for, these companies that can 00:27:27.340 --> 00:27:34.360 kind of revolutionize how the status quo is and how human labor is being done into automation. 00:27:34.940 --> 00:27:35.620 Mm-hmm. 00:27:37.338 --> 00:27:44.038 Talked about labor here, team and culture. What values define the sequence team? 00:27:44.278 --> 00:27:47.358 How do they guide hiring and leadership? 00:27:49.438 --> 00:27:54.558 In hard work, we believe. In hard work, we believe. 00:27:54.938 --> 00:27:59.858 We have all our jumpers are marked in hard work, we believe. 00:27:59.958 --> 00:28:02.858 And when you come to our digital office, it's the first sentence that you're going to find. 00:28:03.098 --> 00:28:07.898 And it's not me who said it, but that's really us. We are a team of people that 00:28:07.898 --> 00:28:08.918 are very unconventional. 00:28:09.578 --> 00:28:15.518 We believe that there is a better way and we always ask the best of ourselves. 00:28:15.898 --> 00:28:19.218 And that's the kind of person that comes in and works with us. 00:28:19.658 --> 00:28:23.558 You have to be extremely curious. You have to be eager to learn. 00:28:23.758 --> 00:28:27.298 You have to be eager to share, to give feedback and to receive it. 00:28:28.478 --> 00:28:32.578 And when we hire someone, one of the things we tell them is, 00:28:32.918 --> 00:28:36.498 look, when you come into sequence you're going to be facing issues and 00:28:36.498 --> 00:28:39.398 challenges that you've never faced in your life and that's 00:28:39.398 --> 00:28:43.218 totally okay what is going to be the difference is 00:28:43.218 --> 00:28:49.818 that you are capable of finding the right tools and the solution and learning 00:28:49.818 --> 00:28:57.178 new things that allow you to do the best that you can your work none of us knew 00:28:57.178 --> 00:29:03.098 how to build a bank yet here we are building a bank all together, 00:29:03.658 --> 00:29:08.878 None of us knew how to build an accounting software, yet here we are changing 00:29:08.878 --> 00:29:11.358 how accounting is done thanks to artificial intelligence. 00:29:11.918 --> 00:29:15.378 And most certainly none of us knew anything about AI four years ago. 00:29:15.518 --> 00:29:21.418 And here we are using it on a day-to-day basis, and that's because we have that, 00:29:22.467 --> 00:29:28.407 knowledge, hunger, continuous drive to learn more and to get better every single day. 00:29:28.747 --> 00:29:29.927 And that's the people that they 00:29:29.927 --> 00:29:33.207 stick with our company. The rest of them don't make it past month one. 00:29:35.067 --> 00:29:38.707 Talked about not making past month one month. 00:29:39.287 --> 00:29:43.627 How do you build high performing startup teams and maintain them? 00:29:44.107 --> 00:29:48.227 That's a great question. I don't know. I'm trying to do my best on that point. 00:29:48.227 --> 00:29:54.087 Maybe the team is the best person to, is the best one to answer that question, 00:29:54.307 --> 00:29:55.707 whether if I'm doing a good job or not. 00:29:55.847 --> 00:30:02.827 But for me, it's about giving a place where the team can be the best out of 00:30:02.827 --> 00:30:04.807 them, giving them accountability, 00:30:05.487 --> 00:30:11.227 delegate effectively, and giving them, you know, a space where they can learn, 00:30:11.427 --> 00:30:12.867 they can grow, they can shine. 00:30:12.867 --> 00:30:18.947 And where their work really impact the company itself. 00:30:19.267 --> 00:30:25.547 You know, at Sequence, we're not only looking at the team as individuals that 00:30:25.547 --> 00:30:28.247 they come in and do a work and then they leave. 00:30:28.407 --> 00:30:33.467 We look at the full lives that they have. We finance the gym. 00:30:33.667 --> 00:30:36.827 We finance, we have a corporate psychologist. 00:30:36.967 --> 00:30:46.507 We have a mental and performance coach. We just hired a corporate hypnotherapist 00:30:46.507 --> 00:30:50.607 so they can also go into that. We hired them with private insurance. 00:30:53.247 --> 00:31:00.527 We're just trying to give them the best possible scenario so they can do what they love to do. 00:31:02.967 --> 00:31:06.427 If one of the people in the team wakes up in the morning and says, 00:31:06.587 --> 00:31:09.607 fuck, I don't want to work in the morning, that's a failure from leadership. 00:31:09.607 --> 00:31:20.767 Because we didn't give them enough room and enough place to shine and to do what they love. 00:31:21.247 --> 00:31:23.127 They need to really do what they love. 00:31:27.127 --> 00:31:32.327 Now, if we're going to maintain them, then they're going to get a piece of the cake. 00:31:32.487 --> 00:31:37.407