WEBVTT 1 00:00:03.360 --> 00:00:06.720 Hello, and welcome, everybody. This is Joe from startup rate dot 2 00:00:06.720 --> 00:00:09.940 io. Welcome you to another episode 3 00:00:10.080 --> 00:00:13.759 of start up rate dot io, the authority on German Swiss and 4 00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:17.595 Austrian startups. Today, I do have Chris with my. And, 5 00:00:17.595 --> 00:00:21.115 no, it's not my cofounder. It's Chris Holcher. Hey, Chris. How are you 6 00:00:21.115 --> 00:00:24.795 doing? Hey, Joe. Good to be here. Thanks for 7 00:00:24.795 --> 00:00:27.455 having me. Totally. My pleasure. 8 00:00:28.395 --> 00:00:32.140 Today, we will be talking about analyst relations. 9 00:00:33.080 --> 00:00:36.620 But before we get into that, a little message from our partner. 10 00:00:37.240 --> 00:00:40.920 Did you know that on average, a blog post gets you way more traffic 11 00:00:40.920 --> 00:00:44.280 than a social media post? 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We're talking about here analyst relations, 21 00:01:17.815 --> 00:01:21.195 but I have a financial services background 22 00:01:21.495 --> 00:01:25.290 and which I have been, what I've 23 00:01:25.290 --> 00:01:29.049 been talk what I hadn't had in my 24 00:01:29.049 --> 00:01:32.110 mind when when when, you started 25 00:01:32.729 --> 00:01:36.189 approaching me with analyst relations with some investment analyst. 26 00:01:36.409 --> 00:01:40.195 But that's not the case. We are talking about analyst 27 00:01:40.195 --> 00:01:43.555 relations in big, companies like 28 00:01:43.555 --> 00:01:47.095 Gartner or Forrester. But before we get into that, 29 00:01:47.235 --> 00:01:50.375 how did you get this interesting and very unique job? 30 00:01:51.955 --> 00:01:55.480 Well, get say I'll I'll try cut the long story short. So I I've always 31 00:01:55.480 --> 00:01:59.020 played at the intersection between innovation management, marketing, 32 00:01:59.240 --> 00:02:01.900 product marketing, product development. And, 33 00:02:03.480 --> 00:02:07.000 roughly 15, 20 years ago, I was with a large company called BT Global 34 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:10.535 Services. I was a product manager there and a product marketing 35 00:02:10.535 --> 00:02:13.895 manager, later. And I was approached to 36 00:02:13.895 --> 00:02:17.655 run, a Gartner, Magic Quadrant 37 00:02:17.655 --> 00:02:21.415 submission. I had no idea what that was. In short, Gartner is the 38 00:02:21.415 --> 00:02:24.955 largest analyst firm in the world, and their Magic Quadrant is their flagship 39 00:02:25.070 --> 00:02:28.750 product that is rating, vendors in 40 00:02:28.750 --> 00:02:32.350 that specific market. So, I was asked to run that 41 00:02:32.350 --> 00:02:36.190 submission for the entire company, so I did, and we did extremely well. 42 00:02:36.190 --> 00:02:39.550 We went from a niche vendor to a leader in that Magic 43 00:02:39.550 --> 00:02:43.085 Quadrant. So they asked me again and again and again, in the 44 00:02:43.085 --> 00:02:46.845 following years, and we did, very well. It's, was a thing 45 00:02:46.845 --> 00:02:50.605 that immediately clicked with me. And, at some point, 46 00:02:50.605 --> 00:02:54.125 I made the switch to run their entire, analyst 47 00:02:54.125 --> 00:02:57.959 relations, program for various parts parts of their portfolio. That was the 48 00:02:57.959 --> 00:03:01.800 compute portfolio, but also their innovation portfolio. And, 49 00:03:02.360 --> 00:03:06.040 one thing that I've heard over and over again from analysts was that they love 50 00:03:06.040 --> 00:03:09.480 to speak to the real innovators in the market, which is very often 51 00:03:09.530 --> 00:03:13.205 startup, but they cannot really afford spending all that much time with 52 00:03:13.205 --> 00:03:17.045 startups because young companies very often have no conception of 53 00:03:17.045 --> 00:03:20.645 analyst relations. And if they know about the term at all, they often have 54 00:03:20.645 --> 00:03:24.245 misconceptions about it, which makes it not time well spent for an 55 00:03:24.245 --> 00:03:27.120 analyst, to reach out to startup, sadly. 56 00:03:27.819 --> 00:03:31.420 So at some point, I decided to make the switch, step out of 57 00:03:31.420 --> 00:03:34.860 that mega player, and focus my knowledge and my 58 00:03:34.860 --> 00:03:38.640 understanding entirely to the benefit of startups and bring that understanding 59 00:03:39.025 --> 00:03:42.785 into the ecosystem that needs it really the most. And that 60 00:03:42.785 --> 00:03:46.405 is how I got into analyst relations for startups. 61 00:03:47.025 --> 00:03:50.785 Mhmm. Before we 62 00:03:50.785 --> 00:03:54.600 get into how you could do that, can you tell 63 00:03:54.600 --> 00:03:58.020 us a little bit of reasoning the benefits why startup 64 00:03:58.440 --> 00:04:01.260 should do that? From our conversation before, 65 00:04:02.120 --> 00:04:05.580 what I understood is it's especially important 66 00:04:06.455 --> 00:04:10.135 for startup in b to b space because a lot of the people 67 00:04:10.135 --> 00:04:13.754 who make purchase decisions, cover 68 00:04:14.055 --> 00:04:17.815 cover themselves, cover the jobs, when they can say, 69 00:04:17.815 --> 00:04:20.954 look, it's in this Forrester. It's in this Gartner analyzers. 70 00:04:21.509 --> 00:04:24.810 It's in the metric quadrant, whatever. So basically, 71 00:04:25.270 --> 00:04:28.889 they have external validation of their decision. 72 00:04:29.190 --> 00:04:32.789 Is that one of the big points? That is absolutely true. Yes. 73 00:04:32.789 --> 00:04:36.585 Well, maybe very quick introduction what analysts actually are. 74 00:04:36.585 --> 00:04:40.125 So analysts, there are roughly 10,000 analysts in the world, 75 00:04:40.745 --> 00:04:44.505 scattered around 700 different firms, of which Gartner is by far 76 00:04:44.505 --> 00:04:48.125 the largest one. Then there's IDC and Forrester as the big three. 77 00:04:48.389 --> 00:04:51.530 Then there's a medium section, also generalists, 78 00:04:53.030 --> 00:04:56.710 like like, Omdia or GigaOm, RedMonk or so that 79 00:04:56.710 --> 00:05:00.229 they that have, basically a broad spectrum of 80 00:05:00.229 --> 00:05:04.055 areas that they cover, but they're medium sized firms. And then 81 00:05:04.055 --> 00:05:07.575 there are a whole lot of specialists. Like, in Germany, we have Koppenger 82 00:05:07.575 --> 00:05:11.335 Koehl, who are security specialists and identity, men 83 00:05:12.615 --> 00:05:16.449 specialists, so very good at what they do, or IoT Analytics, also 84 00:05:16.449 --> 00:05:19.030 a German company, very good at what they do, obviously, 85 00:05:20.530 --> 00:05:24.289 Internet of Things related topics. But they're small. They're maybe, 86 00:05:24.289 --> 00:05:28.050 like, 15, 20, or a 100 people, so very 87 00:05:28.050 --> 00:05:31.885 specialized. So, also important to understand 88 00:05:31.885 --> 00:05:35.245 the you know, why analyst relations is important. It's important to 89 00:05:35.245 --> 00:05:38.385 understand what they're used for. And the first, 90 00:05:39.325 --> 00:05:43.005 the first thing is, as you mentioned, buyers are using analysts to 91 00:05:43.005 --> 00:05:46.640 protect them kind of from overly confident marketing. So, 92 00:05:47.100 --> 00:05:50.400 you can win new customers through analysts, and that is, 93 00:05:50.940 --> 00:05:54.460 because, in b to b tech, 3 and 4 94 00:05:54.460 --> 00:05:57.760 CIOs say that analyst publications and their direct guidance, 95 00:05:58.220 --> 00:06:01.805 on their purchasing challenges are, 96 00:06:02.905 --> 00:06:06.505 our analysts, are are there are the number one impact in their short 97 00:06:06.505 --> 00:06:10.264 listing and buying decisions. And that is, you know, just to 98 00:06:10.264 --> 00:06:13.860 give you a dimension, a single analyst has 750 to 99 00:06:13.860 --> 00:06:17.620 2000 interactions with buyers, and 100 00:06:17.620 --> 00:06:21.300 and potential partners of yours, per year. That is a single 101 00:06:21.300 --> 00:06:25.000 person. And you cannot just leave that, impact, 102 00:06:25.700 --> 00:06:29.425 to your competition. Then there is a second reason. 103 00:06:29.425 --> 00:06:33.265 So, of course, through all those interactions that an analyst has with a with a 104 00:06:33.265 --> 00:06:36.965 buyer, they get really deep understanding 105 00:06:37.505 --> 00:06:40.645 of the demand and of their motivations, of their architectures, 106 00:06:40.945 --> 00:06:44.780 frankly, also of the the entire decision making context. So they 107 00:06:44.780 --> 00:06:48.379 understand extremely deeply and extremely at a great breadth and 108 00:06:48.379 --> 00:06:51.919 depth, they understand the market. So vendors 109 00:06:51.979 --> 00:06:55.555 can use that, on an aggregate basis to 110 00:06:55.555 --> 00:06:59.235 inform their portfolio decisions, their road map decisions, their go to 111 00:06:59.235 --> 00:07:02.995 market, their messaging, what resonates, what kind of language works with 112 00:07:02.995 --> 00:07:06.835 buyers and whatnot, at what point in time, and for what reasons and all 113 00:07:06.835 --> 00:07:10.455 that. So you can make better informed decisions much quicker. 114 00:07:10.789 --> 00:07:14.069 And we both know, and our audience probably as well, that, 115 00:07:14.389 --> 00:07:18.169 especially with startup ups, it's all about making bolder decisions 116 00:07:18.229 --> 00:07:21.669 faster than your rivals. So, that is what 117 00:07:21.669 --> 00:07:25.495 analysts can, absolutely essential doing, 118 00:07:25.495 --> 00:07:29.195 especially in the b to b tech world where where everything is so fast paced 119 00:07:29.415 --> 00:07:33.175 and it's very unforgiving. And then, of course, you can get a quite a 120 00:07:33.175 --> 00:07:36.855 marketing boost out of, analysts once you get mentioned in one of their 121 00:07:36.855 --> 00:07:40.295 reports. And that doesn't have to be the magic quadrant. In fact, the MQ is 122 00:07:40.295 --> 00:07:44.110 not not really designed for a starter. It can 123 00:07:44.110 --> 00:07:47.389 be a 1000000 other types of reports like investor reports or, 124 00:07:47.710 --> 00:07:51.229 innovation reports, technology reports, market reports, and so on. There's a 125 00:07:51.229 --> 00:07:54.849 plethora. Emerging tech radar is is a thing or 126 00:07:55.120 --> 00:07:58.955 Gartner hype cycle report. If you get mentioned in there as 127 00:07:58.955 --> 00:08:01.855 one of a handful of example vendors for a specific, 128 00:08:02.635 --> 00:08:06.475 technology, you can use that as third party validation of your 129 00:08:06.475 --> 00:08:09.854 relevance and your your quality really as a vendor 130 00:08:10.270 --> 00:08:13.710 to to people who may consider, buying your thing or 131 00:08:13.710 --> 00:08:17.550 to, you know, have third party validation for your thought 132 00:08:17.550 --> 00:08:21.150 leadership paper and things like this. So this can be very, very 133 00:08:21.150 --> 00:08:24.745 impactful. And last but least, also investors, of course, do 134 00:08:24.745 --> 00:08:28.345 inquire with with analysts to qualify innovation, to 135 00:08:28.345 --> 00:08:31.865 qualify trends and demand. And they, you know, they they 136 00:08:31.865 --> 00:08:35.625 want to see AR savvy startup because 137 00:08:35.625 --> 00:08:39.379 it tells them that you are of a certain maturity in your management 138 00:08:39.519 --> 00:08:43.220 and you understand this super important part of the playing field. 139 00:08:43.600 --> 00:08:47.300 And, and, of course, that entirely changes their 140 00:08:47.600 --> 00:08:51.279 their risk calculation and thereby impacts 141 00:08:51.279 --> 00:08:54.805 your term sheet, if you are on the radars of the 142 00:08:54.805 --> 00:08:58.605 most, influential analysts. So one thing that, you know, 143 00:08:58.605 --> 00:09:02.425 the the the the hyper successful 144 00:09:02.825 --> 00:09:06.340 startup of the last years, companies like CoreAI, for 145 00:09:06.340 --> 00:09:09.540 example, they have been on the radar of, 146 00:09:10.100 --> 00:09:13.720 analysts very, very early on. They've been a cool vendor with Gartner, 147 00:09:14.340 --> 00:09:18.084 I don't know, 7 years ago or something. And just 2 years later, they made 148 00:09:18.084 --> 00:09:21.765 it into one of their flagship reports, and now they are a multibillion dollar 149 00:09:21.765 --> 00:09:25.305 company because of the enormous impact 150 00:09:25.605 --> 00:09:29.430 of industry analysts. And, that's kind of the reason 151 00:09:29.670 --> 00:09:32.570 why you want to be, in that game. 152 00:09:33.670 --> 00:09:36.810 Sounds pretty much like a marketing boost 153 00:09:37.350 --> 00:09:41.190 or a marketing shortcut, a marketing hack to to be 154 00:09:41.190 --> 00:09:45.015 in there even though it's not as easy. Do step 155 00:09:45.015 --> 00:09:48.475 x then do step y. It's a little bit more complicated. 156 00:09:49.015 --> 00:09:52.695 But in general, you have a 157 00:09:52.695 --> 00:09:56.389 few steps you can do to approach 158 00:09:56.389 --> 00:09:59.769 an analyst. How would you 159 00:09:59.990 --> 00:10:03.129 prepare as a startup to get there? 160 00:10:03.589 --> 00:10:07.269 We may tell the audience that we are right now looking a little 161 00:10:07.269 --> 00:10:10.885 bit at, a theoretical approach to 162 00:10:10.885 --> 00:10:14.185 do an analyst briefing to one of those big analysts 163 00:10:14.565 --> 00:10:18.325 and tell him or her what is so special about 164 00:10:18.325 --> 00:10:22.084 your product, what's so special about your company, why he should include 165 00:10:22.084 --> 00:10:25.820 you. Yes. Okay. Let me say one 166 00:10:25.820 --> 00:10:29.120 thing just before I answer your question, to 167 00:10:30.540 --> 00:10:34.240 to to handle the assumption that, analyst relations is predominantly 168 00:10:34.380 --> 00:10:38.220 a marketing thing. Marketing is probably the most visible part 169 00:10:38.220 --> 00:10:41.915 of it. But, I've done a lot of research myself together with 170 00:10:41.915 --> 00:10:45.375 the University of Edinburgh Business School, and we may get to that later, 171 00:10:45.595 --> 00:10:49.355 that the marketing section of analyst relations, the value that you're getting is 172 00:10:49.355 --> 00:10:53.115 only a fraction of the actual business value that you're getting. It's the most 173 00:10:53.115 --> 00:10:56.860 visible bit, but it's not the most strategic bit in many cases. 174 00:10:57.000 --> 00:11:00.840 So the most strategic bit is actually sharpening your your product market 175 00:11:00.840 --> 00:11:04.520 fit, sharpening your go to market, accelerating your road 176 00:11:04.520 --> 00:11:08.120 map, making the right decisions, taking risk out of your out of your 177 00:11:08.120 --> 00:11:11.665 journey, attracting better investment, and all that. So that's all non 178 00:11:11.665 --> 00:11:13.925 marketing bits of value or even attracting, 179 00:11:15.425 --> 00:11:19.205 and keeping the best talent in the world as you can demonstrate 180 00:11:19.425 --> 00:11:23.105 in your in your hiring, conversations that you are working with the 181 00:11:23.105 --> 00:11:26.810 best informed brains in the market, and that they maybe even have access 182 00:11:26.810 --> 00:11:30.590 to all that research and all that all that data and and insight. 183 00:11:30.730 --> 00:11:34.490 That can really set you apart from others, and it helps you attract and keep 184 00:11:34.490 --> 00:11:37.790 the best talent in the world. So it has a plethora of different 185 00:11:37.930 --> 00:11:41.535 values, and a good analyst relations specialist can help you, 186 00:11:42.714 --> 00:11:46.475 get hold of all that value far beyond just the marketing bits of 187 00:11:46.475 --> 00:11:49.774 it. Although, I agree the marketing bit is, of course, the most 188 00:11:49.995 --> 00:11:53.779 visible one, I mean, by nature, of course. Now 189 00:11:53.779 --> 00:11:57.220 to answer your question, so what should you do, as as a 190 00:11:57.220 --> 00:12:00.980 step? Step 1 is you, should 191 00:12:00.980 --> 00:12:04.600 make the, strategic decision, first of all, to 192 00:12:04.899 --> 00:12:08.565 qualify, is this for me or not? So 193 00:12:09.105 --> 00:12:12.884 analyst relations is not for everyone. Analyst relations 194 00:12:13.024 --> 00:12:16.165 is only relevant for real innovators. 195 00:12:17.904 --> 00:12:21.584 An innovator does not need necessarily need to be 196 00:12:21.584 --> 00:12:25.360 just technology innovation. You can be an absolute 197 00:12:25.420 --> 00:12:29.260 me too product, but you can be hyper innovative on the way how 198 00:12:29.260 --> 00:12:32.880 you deliver it or on your pricing or on your service 199 00:12:33.100 --> 00:12:36.685 or on your you know, you bring it to a new region in the world 200 00:12:36.685 --> 00:12:40.205 where it's not been available so far. So that can be, an 201 00:12:40.205 --> 00:12:43.565 innovator as well. So, but understand just 202 00:12:43.565 --> 00:12:47.185 doing the same as everybody else in the same way as everybody 203 00:12:47.245 --> 00:12:50.945 else, analyst relations will not be for you. And that is not to dismiss, 204 00:12:51.220 --> 00:12:55.060 you know, that kind of business. It can be very profitable business. It's 205 00:12:55.060 --> 00:12:58.740 just not of relevance for analysts. So you need to find out, are there 206 00:12:58.740 --> 00:13:02.420 analysts covering my thing, and is what I'm doing in the way that I'm doing 207 00:13:02.420 --> 00:13:06.175 it relevant enough for analysts to actually play with me? And 208 00:13:06.175 --> 00:13:08.948 I can help, or people like me can help, 209 00:13:08.948 --> 00:13:12.275 startup qualify this very quickly, really. 210 00:13:12.815 --> 00:13:16.495 Now, step 2 would be to make the conscious decision to 211 00:13:16.495 --> 00:13:20.060 start analyst relations as early and as strategically 212 00:13:20.200 --> 00:13:23.640 as you can afford if you're in b to b tech because it is 213 00:13:23.640 --> 00:13:27.080 of enormous impact to the success of, 214 00:13:27.640 --> 00:13:31.480 companies in that field. So Into terms of of a startup 215 00:13:31.480 --> 00:13:35.155 up maturity, when you do have product market fit 216 00:13:35.155 --> 00:13:38.935 around series a, when you're already, looking at around €1,000,000 217 00:13:39.475 --> 00:13:43.235 annual recurring revenue, that would be the point when you would start 218 00:13:43.235 --> 00:13:46.595 it? No. That that that is what most, 219 00:13:46.995 --> 00:13:50.490 VCs tend to, where where they have 220 00:13:50.790 --> 00:13:53.930 an action item of analyst relations on their on their checklist. 221 00:13:54.790 --> 00:13:58.389 But in order to be able to tick that off, you need to engage 222 00:13:58.389 --> 00:14:01.955 much much sooner. Because especially in the United States, for 223 00:14:01.955 --> 00:14:05.335 example, doing analyst relations is a standard 224 00:14:05.635 --> 00:14:09.475 much earlier in the process. And if you ask analysts, and I've done that with 225 00:14:09.475 --> 00:14:12.210 the research that I've been doing, they are 226 00:14:13.747 --> 00:14:17.410 startup much, much earlier even while you define your minimal viable 227 00:14:17.410 --> 00:14:21.090 product, even when you're still in beta phase, even way 228 00:14:21.090 --> 00:14:24.645 before you have your first, reference customers or so. 229 00:14:24.805 --> 00:14:28.485 So startup always assume they need to have a certain revenue or they need to 230 00:14:28.485 --> 00:14:32.245 have reference customers or they need to have a certain maturity. And analysts 231 00:14:32.245 --> 00:14:35.705 typically say, no. No. No. No. No. We want to hear from you before 232 00:14:36.085 --> 00:14:39.800 your pilot customers have started to mess with your ideas. Because we 233 00:14:39.800 --> 00:14:43.320 want to understand your original thinking. Because we are 234 00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:47.160 analysts. We're not, you know, we're not influencers. We don't have 235 00:14:47.160 --> 00:14:51.000 an influencer proposition where you pay us money and then we say nice things 236 00:14:51.000 --> 00:14:54.525 about you. We are here to analyze, to understand, and to 237 00:14:54.525 --> 00:14:58.205 aggregate thinking. So, they want to speak with 238 00:14:58.205 --> 00:15:01.985 you much, much sooner, and they're open to being reached out to 239 00:15:02.045 --> 00:15:05.885 very, very early even in your concept phase. And you need that early 240 00:15:05.885 --> 00:15:09.720 engagement to build up, to use the time, to build 241 00:15:09.860 --> 00:15:13.540 credibility, to build their confidence in your 242 00:15:13.540 --> 00:15:17.060 idea, in your delivery, in your completeness of vision, into your 243 00:15:17.060 --> 00:15:20.820 ability to execute so that they can actually, at some point, be 244 00:15:20.820 --> 00:15:24.515 sure that when they recommend you to inquiring 245 00:15:24.655 --> 00:15:28.495 buyers or inquiring partners or investors, that 246 00:15:28.495 --> 00:15:32.255 they are not recommending bullshit. So you need a 247 00:15:32.255 --> 00:15:35.980 certain time to build that confidence, and 248 00:15:35.980 --> 00:15:39.660 you should start that as early as possible. The cool thing 249 00:15:39.660 --> 00:15:43.260 is doing briefings with analysts is always free. So 250 00:15:43.260 --> 00:15:46.815 there's no reason, you know, to say you couldn't afford it, 251 00:15:47.535 --> 00:15:50.995 because you can start doing briefings very, very early on 252 00:15:52.735 --> 00:15:56.515 without spending a dollar or a euro on it or even a cent. 253 00:15:57.935 --> 00:16:01.550 And although briefings are typically a one way street where 254 00:16:01.550 --> 00:16:05.310 your information goes to the analyst, if you do them well, you can 255 00:16:05.310 --> 00:16:08.830 even get some feedback for your for what you're telling them 256 00:16:08.830 --> 00:16:11.650 about. And that can be enormously valuable. 257 00:16:12.365 --> 00:16:15.024 One client of mine has has has received, 258 00:16:16.445 --> 00:16:19.904 you know, recommendations to just alter their their propositions 259 00:16:20.925 --> 00:16:22.785 slightly and target specific, 260 00:16:25.725 --> 00:16:29.460 you know, personas at certain types of companies, and now 261 00:16:29.460 --> 00:16:33.140 they're getting literally hundreds of projects requests from Amazon 262 00:16:33.140 --> 00:16:36.980 Web Services. So it's done, you know and it's 263 00:16:36.980 --> 00:16:40.815 an qualitative, support that you're get, and it it 264 00:16:40.815 --> 00:16:44.095 is not always the same. It has a 1000000 different shapes, but it can be 265 00:16:44.095 --> 00:16:47.855 life changing. So you should start very early and be very clear 266 00:16:47.855 --> 00:16:51.615 about how you do it. Now once you've done that decision, the actual 267 00:16:51.615 --> 00:16:55.215 first step would be to identify the right analyst to speak to because 268 00:16:55.215 --> 00:16:58.720 they're all different. You know? As I said, there are 10,000 different analysts in the 269 00:16:58.720 --> 00:17:02.420 world, industry analysts in the world. Some are focusing on technologies, 270 00:17:02.560 --> 00:17:05.940 others are focusing on certain market segments, others are 271 00:17:06.159 --> 00:17:09.599 focusing on functions like marketing or or, 272 00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:13.685 or finance or what what have you. And most of them have a mix of 273 00:17:13.685 --> 00:17:17.525 all of this, and all of them have their different backgrounds and histories and 274 00:17:17.525 --> 00:17:21.205 and, research agendas. So you need to really figure out who 275 00:17:21.205 --> 00:17:24.810 is best positioned, to be interested in what I do 276 00:17:24.970 --> 00:17:28.810 and best positioned in terms of the companies that inquire 277 00:17:28.810 --> 00:17:32.010 with that analyst to be relevant for me. So, 278 00:17:33.050 --> 00:17:36.855 that is step number 1. Of course, that is quite difficult, and it's 279 00:17:37.095 --> 00:17:40.855 quite hard for someone who is not a professional in analyst 280 00:17:40.855 --> 00:17:44.695 relations to to figure out that fit. And, honestly, I wouldn't really 281 00:17:44.695 --> 00:17:48.455 know how to do that if I if I, you know, weren't in that 282 00:17:48.455 --> 00:17:51.850 space. So I would recommend go get yourself, 283 00:17:52.470 --> 00:17:56.070 someone into your team who has an analyst relations background who can help you do 284 00:17:56.070 --> 00:17:59.830 that or, hire an external specialist to help you through 285 00:17:59.830 --> 00:18:03.645 that phase. And that doesn't take forever. It takes a few weeks or or 286 00:18:03.645 --> 00:18:07.325 a couple of months, depending on how far you want to go, but 287 00:18:07.325 --> 00:18:11.085 it's, time and money very well spent. Once you've done 288 00:18:11.085 --> 00:18:14.845 this person also should help you to to actually prepare 289 00:18:14.845 --> 00:18:18.330 and do the rebriefing. If you threw together 290 00:18:18.790 --> 00:18:22.230 a a PowerPoint in last minute, just mix the few decks 291 00:18:22.230 --> 00:18:25.350 and, the the the and, 292 00:18:26.310 --> 00:18:29.750 don't really know what's on each slide, it won't 293 00:18:30.595 --> 00:18:34.435 it's very likely you won't get a second preview with this analyst. That 294 00:18:34.435 --> 00:18:38.215 is very, very true. Don't make the mistake 295 00:18:38.595 --> 00:18:42.195 of just you repurposing your marketing slides or your your 296 00:18:42.195 --> 00:18:45.860 sales pitch or your investor pitch. This is the wrong information 297 00:18:46.080 --> 00:18:49.440 delivered in the wrong way, and it's typically, you 298 00:18:49.440 --> 00:18:53.280 know, at the wrong depth and and and not in the language that 299 00:18:53.280 --> 00:18:56.660 an analyst would require. So, 300 00:18:57.200 --> 00:19:00.985 go get help, you know, structuring your briefing, focusing 301 00:19:00.985 --> 00:19:04.825 your briefing, and also you need to be very, very precise in the 302 00:19:04.825 --> 00:19:08.185 language that you're using. So a vision is not the same thing as a 303 00:19:08.185 --> 00:19:11.865 mission. A purpose is not the same thing as a vision. A strategy is 304 00:19:11.865 --> 00:19:15.679 not, I say, not a long term plan. A plan and a 305 00:19:15.679 --> 00:19:18.980 and a startup are 2 very different things in nature. 306 00:19:19.280 --> 00:19:23.040 So analysts are very, because they are they are all about 307 00:19:23.040 --> 00:19:26.800 telling things startup. So they need to understand very precisely what 308 00:19:26.800 --> 00:19:30.615 you're about and what you're not about. So you need to use very accurate 309 00:19:30.615 --> 00:19:33.595 language. And, if you're getting that right, 310 00:19:34.695 --> 00:19:38.375 it sets you apart from, you know, 98% of your of 311 00:19:38.375 --> 00:19:42.215 your rivals already. And by the way, it's also very helpful to understand your 312 00:19:42.215 --> 00:19:45.970 own business in that very accurate language and and make these 313 00:19:45.970 --> 00:19:49.510 decisions. So, yeah, design, 314 00:19:50.450 --> 00:19:54.290 a winning analyst, introductory briefing. And 315 00:19:54.290 --> 00:19:57.465 to give you an idea, the 316 00:19:58.245 --> 00:20:01.625 the structure that I've developed, for for myself 317 00:20:01.845 --> 00:20:05.684 is is around 10 slides or so, 10 content slides. You typically 318 00:20:05.684 --> 00:20:09.125 get 30 minutes. Of those 30 minutes, you want to 319 00:20:09.125 --> 00:20:12.799 reserve at least 5 to 10 minutes for q and a at the end. That 320 00:20:12.799 --> 00:20:16.480 gives you a maximum of, like, you know, 20 or 321 00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:20.160 so minutes you can actually present. And in those 20 322 00:20:20.160 --> 00:20:23.460 minutes, you need to thoroughly thoroughly explain 323 00:20:23.919 --> 00:20:26.675 your business workings. And, 324 00:20:27.955 --> 00:20:31.555 and that takes some experience. So, if 325 00:20:32.275 --> 00:20:35.815 I can I would recommend get yourself, an author relations specialist 326 00:20:36.035 --> 00:20:37.895 who can, help you design that? 327 00:20:39.799 --> 00:20:43.419 Once you've gotten the feedback from from the from the analyst, 328 00:20:43.480 --> 00:20:47.320 ideally, a feedback not like, thank you very much. Don't call us. 329 00:20:47.320 --> 00:20:51.080 We call you. That would that would mean that would 330 00:20:51.080 --> 00:20:54.695 mean you haven't made the cut. But if you get a feedback, like, that 331 00:20:54.695 --> 00:20:58.375 was very interesting. I would love to stay in touch. I would 332 00:20:58.375 --> 00:21:02.215 love to get a follow-up on this particular aspect. I would love 333 00:21:02.215 --> 00:21:05.735 to speak to one of your pilot customers or one of your, you know, 334 00:21:05.926 --> 00:21:09.500 gartner, or could we do an extra session on this particular aspect? 335 00:21:09.880 --> 00:21:13.559 That tells you the analyst has made the decision to let you 336 00:21:13.559 --> 00:21:17.400 into their, world of thinking. So that means you are in 337 00:21:17.400 --> 00:21:20.940 fact relevant to their end customers who are inquiring 338 00:21:21.000 --> 00:21:24.565 about the thing that you're offering. So that tells you 339 00:21:24.725 --> 00:21:28.325 it's a very thorough, a very reliable way 340 00:21:28.325 --> 00:21:32.005 of proving product market fit because that 341 00:21:32.005 --> 00:21:35.765 analyst is so in-depth, connected to 342 00:21:35.765 --> 00:21:39.409 your target audience and to the wider market in all sorts of 343 00:21:39.409 --> 00:21:43.010 way because they do nothing else every day. So, 344 00:21:43.330 --> 00:21:46.929 that means you're in. So you're now on the radar of that analyst. The next 345 00:21:46.929 --> 00:21:50.625 challenge is to get from the radar onto the map if you to stay in 346 00:21:50.625 --> 00:21:54.085 that picture. So you want the analyst to actually put you 347 00:21:54.305 --> 00:21:57.605 into one of their reports, into their, you know, publications 348 00:21:58.305 --> 00:22:02.065 of whichever shape or form, and, that 349 00:22:02.065 --> 00:22:05.730 you will need to work on. The the 350 00:22:05.730 --> 00:22:09.330 big dimensions are complete your completeness of vision and your 351 00:22:09.330 --> 00:22:12.390 ability to execute, and you need to demonstrate both, 352 00:22:13.410 --> 00:22:16.950 over time through repeated briefings and through repeated 353 00:22:17.090 --> 00:22:20.544 interactions with that analyst and proving to the analyst that you're 354 00:22:20.544 --> 00:22:24.225 working along your road map and, you know, you're following up on your on your 355 00:22:24.225 --> 00:22:27.985 promises and you you slowly, gradually build 356 00:22:27.985 --> 00:22:31.345 their confidence in your product, in your ability to 357 00:22:31.345 --> 00:22:35.149 deliver, in your strategy, in your ability to follow through and do the 358 00:22:35.149 --> 00:22:38.476 things that you you know, to execute the things that are in your startup, 359 00:22:38.990 --> 00:22:42.529 and to build that confidence that at some point, he or she is confident 360 00:22:42.830 --> 00:22:46.529 to recommend you, not just in direct conversations to 361 00:22:46.855 --> 00:22:50.615 to people inquiring about the type of product that you bring to market, but 362 00:22:50.615 --> 00:22:54.455 also to put you into their, innovation reports 363 00:22:54.455 --> 00:22:56.394 or their, their, 364 00:22:59.200 --> 00:23:02.960 yeah, their their bigger thinking about market trends and and predictions and and 365 00:23:02.960 --> 00:23:06.800 things like that. So that would be the next phase, which then 366 00:23:06.800 --> 00:23:10.400 consists of, a 100 different actions that you will need 367 00:23:10.400 --> 00:23:12.980 to take and and and build this confidence. 368 00:23:14.294 --> 00:23:18.075 But I have to admit, with now around 369 00:23:18.375 --> 00:23:22.054 20 20 plus minutes in recording, I 370 00:23:22.054 --> 00:23:25.590 do believe we have made already a 371 00:23:25.590 --> 00:23:29.429 pretty big, uh-huh, moment for many 372 00:23:29.429 --> 00:23:33.049 founders out there. Just to have in mind 373 00:23:33.350 --> 00:23:36.650 that not magically some of those companies 374 00:23:36.790 --> 00:23:40.495 will have you appear in the report, but it's actually 375 00:23:40.955 --> 00:23:44.715 pretty tough work to get in there. You likely need a 376 00:23:44.715 --> 00:23:48.255 specialist. You likely need quite some time 377 00:23:48.395 --> 00:23:50.895 in order to get this done. 378 00:23:52.190 --> 00:23:56.030 It does cost some money. Do do you have a pretty rough 379 00:23:56.030 --> 00:23:59.870 idea what happened to few of your clients, what they are 380 00:23:59.870 --> 00:24:03.630 doing? I know it's it's not a one on one relation very likely. I can 381 00:24:03.630 --> 00:24:05.810 give you a couple of, examples. So, 382 00:24:07.184 --> 00:24:10.705 most impressively, maybe, when I worked with a company in 383 00:24:10.705 --> 00:24:14.325 the communication space, doing analyst relations, 384 00:24:15.105 --> 00:24:18.404 right, so to say, to cut it short, suddenly 385 00:24:19.790 --> 00:24:23.010 led to 5 times more more leads that they generated. 386 00:24:24.430 --> 00:24:27.890 At the same time, with the leads that follow through, 387 00:24:28.350 --> 00:24:32.190 they had a a much better win rate and, the the deals 388 00:24:32.190 --> 00:24:35.995 that they were able to win suddenly went from pretty 389 00:24:36.054 --> 00:24:39.415 operational types of deals to far more 390 00:24:39.415 --> 00:24:42.554 strategic levels of conversations and far more strategic, 391 00:24:43.255 --> 00:24:47.015 deals that they were able to close. So the individual value of the, 392 00:24:47.255 --> 00:24:50.909 of the individual deal was much bigger and which led to 393 00:24:50.909 --> 00:24:54.590 a a I'm not I hope I don't get this 394 00:24:54.590 --> 00:24:58.429 wrong. So they I've they have 5 times the leads and 4 times the 395 00:24:58.429 --> 00:25:02.110 revenue that they generated compared to previously. Now that is, of 396 00:25:02.110 --> 00:25:05.685 course, not not something that I can, you know, promise for everyone. That was, 397 00:25:05.685 --> 00:25:09.225 you know, this company being particularly successful 398 00:25:09.285 --> 00:25:13.125 with how we were able to make analyst relations work for them 399 00:25:13.125 --> 00:25:16.905 in the challenges that they had. So I'll give you another 400 00:25:16.965 --> 00:25:20.440 example. We had, I was 401 00:25:20.440 --> 00:25:24.140 working with a, with a transformation, consultancy, 402 00:25:24.840 --> 00:25:28.539 and they were able in this very difficult market environment, 403 00:25:28.600 --> 00:25:32.059 they were able, through their analyst relations, work, 404 00:25:33.799 --> 00:25:37.585 attract much more, talent that they were 405 00:25:37.585 --> 00:25:41.105 able to attract previously just because they were, they were 406 00:25:41.105 --> 00:25:44.705 able to be to offer a highly valuable 407 00:25:44.705 --> 00:25:48.165 proposition to the people that would be working for them through their access 408 00:25:48.670 --> 00:25:52.430 to top notch, industry analyst knowledge and and 409 00:25:52.430 --> 00:25:56.270 data and all that. And that was very attractive to people who would otherwise maybe 410 00:25:56.270 --> 00:26:00.030 have been working for Accenture or for McKinsey or someone, which also 411 00:26:00.030 --> 00:26:03.625 would have had analyst relations contracts, but not in the 412 00:26:03.625 --> 00:26:07.385 same way executed as this small firm was able 413 00:26:07.385 --> 00:26:10.605 to give them direct access into those, bits of research, 414 00:26:11.304 --> 00:26:15.085 because they understood how to handle it in a productive 415 00:26:15.144 --> 00:26:18.700 way. I can give you a third example, and that was, a 416 00:26:18.700 --> 00:26:22.380 company that I've worked with in the IoT space. They actually 417 00:26:22.380 --> 00:26:26.220 became a cool vendor, you know, highlighted by Gartner in one of their 418 00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:29.595 reports. And at the time, they didn't really know what to do with it. So 419 00:26:29.595 --> 00:26:33.195 they just put it on their website and nothing really more happened. A year 420 00:26:33.195 --> 00:26:36.255 later, one of their competitors from the United States, 421 00:26:38.315 --> 00:26:41.915 pretty much offering the same thing, did, was 422 00:26:41.915 --> 00:26:45.640 also highlighted as a cool vendor in the Gartner report. 423 00:26:46.500 --> 00:26:50.180 And, they knew what to do with analyst relations. So 424 00:26:50.180 --> 00:26:53.940 they actively worked with that, with 425 00:26:53.940 --> 00:26:57.700 that, visibility and with the insight that they could gain from 426 00:26:57.700 --> 00:27:00.305 it, through the analyst. And, 427 00:27:01.645 --> 00:27:05.325 and, just, 2 years later, when, the 428 00:27:05.325 --> 00:27:09.025 the first company had hired me, because they had difficulties 429 00:27:09.165 --> 00:27:13.000 in getting investor money and stuff, And we did briefings, and we 430 00:27:13.000 --> 00:27:16.440 did inquiries and and things. And I got them into a 431 00:27:16.440 --> 00:27:20.200 Gartner investor report as one of just 5 other example 432 00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:23.640 vendors in that particular field, which 433 00:27:23.640 --> 00:27:27.145 highlighted them to the market and got them a few months 434 00:27:27.145 --> 00:27:30.825 later, got them a serious, series a 435 00:27:30.825 --> 00:27:34.525 investment, at at a at a certain valuation. 436 00:27:34.825 --> 00:27:38.665 Now through that report, we were able to spot that other vendor 437 00:27:38.665 --> 00:27:42.340 in the US who appeared 1 year later, but now was 438 00:27:42.340 --> 00:27:45.800 mentioned in that same investor report. And they had already 439 00:27:45.940 --> 00:27:49.540 surpassed the the German company that I was working now 440 00:27:49.540 --> 00:27:53.160 with surpassed them because they engaged in analyst relations 441 00:27:53.220 --> 00:27:56.955 earlier in their maturity cycle. They were now at a 442 00:27:56.955 --> 00:28:00.635 valuation that was 5 times as large as the German company 443 00:28:00.635 --> 00:28:03.935 just because they started their analyst relations journey 444 00:28:04.075 --> 00:28:07.295 earlier, knew what to do, and played it 445 00:28:07.800 --> 00:28:11.640 more thoroughly, more strategically. So the German company was in the 446 00:28:11.640 --> 00:28:15.480 market a year earlier, was highlighted earlier, didn't know what to do 447 00:28:15.480 --> 00:28:18.620 with it, started analyst relations later, 448 00:28:19.160 --> 00:28:22.920 and got outplayed by 5 times the valuation within just a 449 00:28:22.920 --> 00:28:26.495 few years. So it's very different 450 00:28:26.495 --> 00:28:30.175 for every for each company, and it depends very much on your 451 00:28:30.175 --> 00:28:33.375 market situation, on your product, on your priorities that you have. 452 00:28:34.255 --> 00:28:38.010 But it can have an absolutely substantial impact on 453 00:28:38.010 --> 00:28:41.290 everything that you do. I see. 454 00:28:41.770 --> 00:28:45.610 And, that is actually not the only, piece 455 00:28:45.610 --> 00:28:49.130 of content we're doing together because you are not 456 00:28:49.130 --> 00:28:52.665 only advising startup how to get into 457 00:28:52.665 --> 00:28:54.765 those reports, but you're also, 458 00:28:56.345 --> 00:28:59.405 building knowledge? You you're doing surveys? 459 00:29:00.025 --> 00:29:03.625 Yes. Yes. When I, made the decision to switch from the dark 460 00:29:03.625 --> 00:29:07.225 side, the large mega players, to this to the bright side, to the start 461 00:29:07.225 --> 00:29:11.050 ups, I, quickly found out that there is very little research on 462 00:29:11.050 --> 00:29:14.110 the matter. I, had done 463 00:29:15.050 --> 00:29:17.770 early research myself where I just found out that, 464 00:29:18.410 --> 00:29:22.010 European startups were mentioned, a 465 00:29:22.010 --> 00:29:25.495 lot less in, you know, in high profile 466 00:29:25.875 --> 00:29:29.255 analyst publications compared to United States headquartered 467 00:29:29.795 --> 00:29:33.415 vendors. So a comparison, 468 00:29:33.875 --> 00:29:36.775 5 US companies versus 1 one European, 469 00:29:37.395 --> 00:29:41.210 company that was quite stark. And that led me into 470 00:29:41.210 --> 00:29:45.049 looking so how is this with, startup? And there was 471 00:29:45.049 --> 00:29:48.669 very little research. So I approached the University of Edinburgh 472 00:29:48.730 --> 00:29:52.330 Business School and, professor Neil Pollock there, who 473 00:29:52.330 --> 00:29:56.025 leads their innovation, research, was quickly on board 474 00:29:56.025 --> 00:29:59.544 to say, yes. Let's let's examine this. And we set 475 00:29:59.544 --> 00:30:03.145 up, the what we call the state of startup with industry 476 00:30:03.145 --> 00:30:06.985 analyst research. We immediately set it up as a research program that would 477 00:30:06.985 --> 00:30:10.690 go forever. So we do this every 2 years. 478 00:30:10.690 --> 00:30:14.210 We examine, the situation from 3 different 479 00:30:14.210 --> 00:30:18.049 angles. So startup, of course, we are startups. How do you work 480 00:30:18.049 --> 00:30:21.190 with analysts? Why? And what's what are the outcomes? 481 00:30:22.210 --> 00:30:25.885 We asked investors, so 482 00:30:25.885 --> 00:30:29.664 venture capital firms, but also their, the accelerator ecosystem. 483 00:30:30.205 --> 00:30:33.905 So what is your engagement, with startup and industry analysts? 484 00:30:34.445 --> 00:30:38.140 And what are your experiences? What are the outcomes that you see? And we 485 00:30:38.140 --> 00:30:41.980 also ask the into, industry analysts themselves in how 486 00:30:41.980 --> 00:30:45.600 do you work with startup ups from your end, and what are you recommending? 487 00:30:45.660 --> 00:30:49.360 What is working? What is not working? And, what are the outcomes? 488 00:30:49.654 --> 00:30:53.335 So we approach it from all three angles to get a 3 60 degree of 489 00:30:53.335 --> 00:30:57.095 the of the matter. And we didn't only ask startup and 490 00:30:57.095 --> 00:31:00.855 and, and, VCs and so who already knew about analyst 491 00:31:00.855 --> 00:31:04.480 relations. We specifically also asked those players who had 492 00:31:04.480 --> 00:31:08.240 no conception at all about analyst relations. So we really get the 3 493 00:31:08.240 --> 00:31:12.000 60 degrees, of insight. And we had a couple 494 00:31:12.000 --> 00:31:15.440 of, phenomenal findings there. So first of 495 00:31:15.440 --> 00:31:19.279 all, European startup have no idea of the type of value that they 496 00:31:19.279 --> 00:31:22.415 get. 73% of them 497 00:31:22.635 --> 00:31:26.315 think that analysts' exposure to buyer 498 00:31:27.115 --> 00:31:30.655 to buyers is rather low, where in reality, 499 00:31:32.520 --> 00:31:36.200 79% of analysts, speak to startup ups 500 00:31:36.200 --> 00:31:40.040 specifically to identify innovators that they can recommend to inquiring buyers. 501 00:31:40.040 --> 00:31:43.640 And I told you earlier that, you know, a single analyst has a 1000 to 502 00:31:43.640 --> 00:31:47.065 2000 buyer interactions every every year. So that's 503 00:31:47.065 --> 00:31:50.505 huge. So 73% of startup think 504 00:31:50.505 --> 00:31:54.205 that the the ability to get exposures to buyers is low, 505 00:31:54.745 --> 00:31:58.490 but almost 8 in 10 analysts speak to start ups specifically 506 00:31:58.550 --> 00:32:01.930 to identify innovators that they can recommend to inquiring buyers. 507 00:32:02.630 --> 00:32:05.990 So massive mismatch tells you knowing about 508 00:32:05.990 --> 00:32:09.290 this can get you a a leap ahead 509 00:32:09.590 --> 00:32:13.135 of a huge portion of your rivals. Mhmm. 510 00:32:13.135 --> 00:32:16.895 2nd finding was that, 2 thirds of 511 00:32:16.955 --> 00:32:20.655 startup think they must have broad availability before industry analysts 512 00:32:20.655 --> 00:32:24.270 are even open to these conversations as as we discussed earlier. But 513 00:32:24.270 --> 00:32:28.030 the majority of analysts want to speak to you at beta or 514 00:32:28.030 --> 00:32:31.790 even into a mobile product, stage. So enormous shift 515 00:32:31.790 --> 00:32:35.630 there as well. So you can start much earlier. The interesting thing about that 516 00:32:35.630 --> 00:32:39.070 is that, we found that professional analyst 517 00:32:39.070 --> 00:32:42.885 relations, handling of analyst relations can pull 518 00:32:42.885 --> 00:32:46.405 forward this qualified visibility through their market 519 00:32:46.405 --> 00:32:49.065 reports or through direct recommendations to buyers 520 00:32:49.845 --> 00:32:52.825 by as much as 4 years. 521 00:32:53.630 --> 00:32:57.149 So the average the the mean age of, startups being mentioned in 522 00:32:57.149 --> 00:33:00.510 reports was around 7 years in business. And if you do analyst 523 00:33:00.510 --> 00:33:04.269 relations professionally and do it well, those 524 00:33:04.269 --> 00:33:07.549 companies were able to pull that forward by as much as 3, 525 00:33:07.870 --> 00:33:11.295 4 years. So they got mentioned in the 1st 3 years in 526 00:33:11.295 --> 00:33:14.895 business. And that is, as you know, in in startup world, that is 527 00:33:14.895 --> 00:33:18.655 literally a lifetime for many start ups, sadly. Mhmm. So that's 528 00:33:18.655 --> 00:33:20.515 quite a that's quite a pull effect. 529 00:33:22.080 --> 00:33:25.840 Now, then we also, you know, another example of 530 00:33:25.840 --> 00:33:29.600 the research findings was that we asked analysts, so what type of 531 00:33:29.600 --> 00:33:32.100 analyst relations handling, what type of organization, 532 00:33:33.520 --> 00:33:37.154 makes analyst relations most effective in in your work with startup 533 00:33:37.154 --> 00:33:40.995 ups. So if you work through marketing agency or if you have 534 00:33:40.995 --> 00:33:44.595 analyst relations handled through your venture capital firm or, you 535 00:33:44.595 --> 00:33:48.195 know, however, or through your strategy department or through your 536 00:33:48.195 --> 00:33:51.630 marketing department or what. And, the finding there 537 00:33:51.630 --> 00:33:55.090 was, it's, of course, best handled through AR specialist. 538 00:33:55.549 --> 00:33:59.150 And, I'm not just saying this because I am a specialist, but because the difference 539 00:33:59.150 --> 00:34:02.750 was so stark. Because analyst relation specialists were 540 00:34:02.750 --> 00:34:05.935 were rated 50 points better 541 00:34:06.315 --> 00:34:10.155 than if it was handled through a marketing agency or PR agency or 542 00:34:10.155 --> 00:34:13.835 through your VC. In fact, PR agencies and VCs 543 00:34:13.835 --> 00:34:17.400 had a net negative rating through the eyes 544 00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:21.079 of, of the actual industry analysts who were supposed to 545 00:34:21.079 --> 00:34:24.760 be, you know, addressed by these briefings. And they had a 546 00:34:24.760 --> 00:34:28.060 net negative rating in terms of effectiveness. So 547 00:34:28.520 --> 00:34:31.975 understanding that, again, gets you a leap 548 00:34:31.975 --> 00:34:35.735 forward, in comparison, for for competitors who may 549 00:34:35.735 --> 00:34:37.594 handle it intuitively and differently. 550 00:34:39.815 --> 00:34:43.255 I I also have at the back of my mind that you will 551 00:34:43.255 --> 00:34:46.750 share in the next episode a few more of your 552 00:34:46.750 --> 00:34:50.510 learnings there, plus there is or there will be soon 553 00:34:50.510 --> 00:34:54.349 another survey going on? Yes. Absolutely. So, we 554 00:34:54.510 --> 00:34:57.734 as I said, we are we're doing this on a biannual basis, and the results 555 00:34:57.734 --> 00:35:01.255 that I just shared were from the 2022 survey. And 556 00:35:01.255 --> 00:35:04.934 we're, just, we've just launched a couple of weeks ago the 557 00:35:04.934 --> 00:35:08.615 24 version of the same, research. We're not asking the exact same 558 00:35:08.615 --> 00:35:12.234 questions again because we are adding puzzle piece by puzzle piece to our, 559 00:35:12.320 --> 00:35:16.000 you know, comprehensive understanding of the matter. So 560 00:35:16.000 --> 00:35:19.520 this year, it'll be all about how startup use analyst 561 00:35:19.520 --> 00:35:23.140 relations, throughout, the organizations, different use cases, 562 00:35:24.000 --> 00:35:27.715 which analyst firms are most used by startup and and which 563 00:35:27.715 --> 00:35:31.155 are best rated as well. And then when in 564 00:35:31.155 --> 00:35:34.995 your, maturity cycle do you best do what? When do you 565 00:35:34.995 --> 00:35:38.680 start briefings, when you start inquiries, when you start to do 566 00:35:38.680 --> 00:35:42.520 document reviews, when do you start to participate in events, and and 567 00:35:42.520 --> 00:35:46.220 all those kinds of things. So when in your journey should you do what? 568 00:35:46.600 --> 00:35:50.440 So a couple of really interesting puzzle pieces to our holistic understanding 569 00:35:50.440 --> 00:35:54.105 of the matter. And we can we can by the way, we we 570 00:35:54.105 --> 00:35:57.785 should put, links in the show notes for for people 571 00:35:57.785 --> 00:36:01.305 to to contribute because, again, it does not matter whether you 572 00:36:01.305 --> 00:36:05.145 have or have no understanding of analyst relations because, again, 573 00:36:05.145 --> 00:36:08.839 we want into, collect the entire understanding from 574 00:36:08.839 --> 00:36:11.259 all angles. And it only takes, like, 15 minutes. 575 00:36:12.680 --> 00:36:16.440 Sounds pretty good. Everybody who'd like to learn more, you can go down 576 00:36:16.440 --> 00:36:19.960 here in the show notes. There's link to your LinkedIn profile as 577 00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:23.434 well as a link to the survey that you'll hopefully 578 00:36:23.494 --> 00:36:27.194 show me after this recording. Definitely. 579 00:36:27.734 --> 00:36:31.575 Definitely. Great. Chris, was a pleasure talking to you. Thank 580 00:36:31.575 --> 00:36:35.136 you very much. Thanks for the opportunity. Thanks for the time. Thanks 581 00:36:35.136 --> 00:36:38.975 for your all of your listeners tuning in. Thanks. Looking forward to have you 582 00:36:38.975 --> 00:36:41.316 back. Bye bye. Speak soon. Bye.